Suggestion to make going Rogue interesting....

[ESGN]

I was going rogue in the lower bracket last night. I tried not to kill players multiple times unless them kept coming back shooting. I wasnt after gear, just xp and keys. Sorry if it was any of you. If your from these forums, holler at me on mic and we can team up or ill just leave you alone.  I typically do not go rogue down there. I usually hunt them. But, you can only farm npcs so much.

i think an alternate extraction for rogues is a good idea.

 

[Blazzen67]

i don't mind getting killed in the DZ like others have mentioned on here. like if im shooting at you rogues and you end up killing me...ill say good fight, you earned it.  its the name of the game.....its the pu**y rogues i hate, they wait till you are engaged with NPC's and shoot you in the back, or they wait till you are in the motion of placing your bag on the rope before they kill you...that to me is being a pu**y who doesn't like people fighting back...any non-skill palyer can kill someone when they cant fight back, how about trying something new and fight people who are ready and able to fight back?

With that said, i think Massive's idea to bracket the gear scores was a move in the right direction, but its not going far enough. someone with a gear score over 200 is going to melt anyone near 161+, and players that are ranked 30/99 are going to have better weapons and gear than a level 30/50 or lower (since there are blueprints at rank 70'ish and 90ish, i could be wrong that those blueprints at those ranks are better)...bracketing the DZ by gear score alone isnt going to do it. i still think the DZ ranks should be bracketed 1-30, 31-50, 51-70, 71-99.  that would be the fair way to do it.

 

[samanthadchavez007]

‘The Division’ Is Drowning And Only A ‘Loot 2.0’ Update Can Save It


Massive/Ubisoft doesn’t care about the state of the game otherwise they would’ve never made it a looter shooter. They really shot themselves in the foot… with an RPG! The Division was just a filler to get players by until Wildlands comes out. Much like how Far Cry Primal was a filler for The Division. Massive should’ve followed in GTAO’s footsteps instead of Destiny’s. Obviously a game’s doing it right when they’re still going strong after 3yrs and 2 generations of consoles +PC. Massive should scrap The Division all together and re-release a reboot with a GTA feel.

http://thestreettimes.com/2016/04/26/the-division-is-drowning-and-only-a-loot-2-0-update-can-save-it/

 

[Blazzen67]

I don't like the idea of rogues not being able to extract either.

this is where i disagree with you. going by story line. rogues turn into the enemy's of directive 51 and become the thing the agents are there to fight in the first place..why should they be able to use agency resources to extract there stolen loot they got by murdering their fellow agents?? this is an RPG and to be a Role player, you are playing the role as the story line suggests. Rogues being able to use agency resources doesnt make any sense at all,going by the story line. and going rogue isn't suppose to be easy.  its suppose to be hard on them.

 

[ESGN]

I don't like them not being able to extract either, but I agree that a good medium would be an alternative extraction. Being able to kill while someone is extracting and steal their gear, then immediately extract it. Isnt the way to go. I agree with blazzen on his stance of the rogues that do just that. No one likes being shot in the back and it shouldn't be rewarded.

 

[Blazzen67]

I don't like them not being able to extract either, but I agree that a good medium would be an alternative extraction. Being able to kill while someone is extracting and steal their gear, then immediately extract it. Isnt the way to go. I agree with blazzen on his stance of the rogues that do just that. No one likes being shot in the back and it shouldn't be rewarded.

an alternate extraction would be good...that way when we respawn after the pu**y's shoot us while in the motion of extracting..we can return the favor and do the same to them at their alternate extraction LOL, make the alternate extraction point on the opposite side of the map where they stole the loot, that way they are under pressure to get to that extraction point before revenge is brought down upon them ..i like that idea

 

[quinch1199]

an alternate extraction would be good...that way when we respawn after the pu**y's shoot us while in the motion of extracting..we can return the favor and do the same to them at their alternate extraction LOL, make the alternate extraction point on the opposite side of the map where they stole the loot, that way they are under pressure to get to that extraction point before revenge is brought down upon them ..i like that idea

I do agree with this, to have, in some form, an alternative way Rogues have to extract....either waiting until timer expires - easiest to implement but not ideal - or a completely different extraction zone. 

I'm not a fan of them having a static LZ however as we all know that it will end up in a tit-for-tat exchange. This wouldn't be so bad if the DZ was about twice the size it is but I think its to small for this. 

Some form of randomly spawning LZ might be better? Using a similar mechanic to when players call down for extraction but mechanic could be as follows:

Rogue uses a red flare. 

There are multiple "dormant" Rogue LZ points. 

Once a flare goes up from a Rogue, one is randomly activated for a set time (5 mins?? Maybe 8?)

Similar to normal players the Rogue has to now make it to that point...note the Rogue can activate the point from any point on the map (might be too hard to code now)...

Players are notified a Rogue Flare has gone up but NOT which LZ is activated out of the known dormant locations.

...how does that sound? I'm trying to play towards the deep-covert nature of what being a Rogue is meant to mean...to also encourage more stealth from them. 

 

[Blazzen67]

I do agree with this, to have, in some form, an alternative way Rogues have to extract....either waiting until timer expires - easiest to implement but not ideal - or a completely different extraction zone. 

I'm not a fan of them having a static LZ however as we all know that it will end up in a tit-for-tat exchange. This wouldn't be so bad if the DZ was about twice the size it is but I think its to small for this. 

Some form of randomly spawning LZ might be better? Using a similar mechanic to when players call down for extraction but mechanic could be as follows:

Rogue uses a red flare. 

There are multiple "dormant" Rogue LZ points. 

Once a flare goes up from a Rogue, one is randomly activated for a set time (5 mins?? Maybe 8?)

Similar to normal players the Rogue has to now make it to that point...note the Rogue can activate the point from any point on the map (might be too hard to code now)...

Players are notified a Rogue Flare has gone up but NOT which LZ is activated out of the known dormant locations.

...how does that sound? I'm trying to play towards the deep-covert nature of what being a Rogue is meant to mean...to also encourage more stealth from them. 

i was thinking more in the lines of when someone goes rogue, say in DZ01...they have to get to DZ06 to extract, and vise versa ....make it so they have to go far to be able to extract. that way people will have a chance to try to get revenge and get their stuff back...as it is now, they just kill you while extracting and use your own extraction to get away with your loot. but your idea is good as well

 

[quinch1199]

i was thinking more in the lines of when someone goes rogue, say in DZ01...they have to get to DZ06 to extract, and vise versa ....make it so they have to go far to be able to extract. that way people will have a chance to try to get revenge and get their stuff back...as it is now, they just kill you while extracting and use your own extraction to get away with your loot. but your idea is good as well

That would work very well in conjunction with what I suggested to be honest. I was thinking that Rogue LZ would be widely spread and few in number certainly so making it that there was only 4 over the whole DZ as it stands might be a way forward. 

The flipside is that we need it balanced...not to swing too far against Rogues either but trying to make it far more risky so going Rogue is a choice made only after long consideration. Having a Rogue LZ only in DZ06 would, I think, only encourage the highest level players to go Rogue and limit Rogue activity to DZ06 ... absolutely not a solution to the issue. 

Rogues need to be spread about but forced to think about the actions of going Rogue more seriously and if, in the end, its worth it. Having Rogue LZ's spread more evenly would mean you will get players going Rogue who are low level as well still...which I encourage still as it means lower players have a chance to defend themselves better and higher level players will realise its too much of a risk to gank low level players just for shits-n-giggles.

EDIT - Needed to clarify. Which Rogue LZ you use depends on your Darkzone level maybe? (I wish the DZ was much bigger as this is limiting the ideas right now)... with the current size of the DZ we have to limit it to spread the Rogue LZ's out but perhaps only 3-4 over the whole DZ. Players DZ rank will band them into which group of Rogue LZ's they can use...for example a high level player with a high DZ rank can't activate the Rogue LZ in DZ02 but has to go to DZ06....his Rogue status REMAINS UNTIL EXTRACT....meaning if he's gone down to DZ01 in a deliberate attempt to just Troll low level players who can't defend themselves from his "Godlike" abilities....then he has to run the gauntlet of all the DZ zones before he drops Rogue status. However, this ENCOURAGES him to go Rogue at a difficulty level roughly equivalent to his DZ level and where he will be doing so for the REWARDS rather than being a dick. 

 

[quinch1199]

I'm also thinking that having multiple Rogue LZ points that are dormant helps with the age old problem of Spawn Camping. It won't prevent it entirely of course but limiting the visits to specific LZ's (and this, I think, just mirrors how normal LZ's work now) helps to cut that down. 

 

[Blazzen67]

when i used DZ06 as an example i meant if a player went rogue in DZO1 their extraction point would be DZ06 and if they went rogue in DZO6 their extraction point would be in DZ01, always the farthest extraction point to where to go rogue on the map...not necessarily just DZ06 all the time, and the extraction point will never be the same, it will always be different, to curb camping

 

[ESGN]

This is all based on rogues actually going rogue to steal materials. This wont apply to those that do it for xp and/or dz keys.

Some interesting ideas though. I liked the one about the moving APC, but that seems hard to implements. Especially since the coders don't know how to properly code increase/decrease dmg.

 

[Blazzen67]

This is all based on rogues actually going rogue to steal materials. This wont apply to those that do it for xp and/or dz keys.

yes, you are right, but this is also for if they go rogue when they already have loot on them that they need to get out. or if they get loot as rogue by killing NPC's this would always be a factor when you decide to go rogue. 

 

[ESGN]

I should of thought about that before I posted. My brain is fried. Been sitting in networking class going over subnetting and supernetting lol.

 

[HHHope]

CHANGE NOTHING!

 

[RimBlock]

Good to see this is generating some great conversation on the subject.

All this talk of LZs had me thinking the opposite way.  How about the Rogue drops are in the subways / underground shopping malls ?.  There are multiple entry points, they already have AI to combat to get in there.  The rogues all get an 8 minute warning on which one they have to get to and the Division get a 5 minute notification (delayed intel update).  Rogues also should not know which division LZ is being used straight away for the same reason.

Would make for some awesome close combat in the tunnels, they could drop loot in a stash like dropbox which then gets emptied after the timer goes.  Up until that point, non-rogues can raid the box so the Rogues would have to defend.  The subway / shopping mall tunnels are pretty defensible so should not be as hard as it sounds unless you are a lone rogue.  A flare can be used to signal the 'Fence' you are ready with the goods and they would provide the underground drop box location.

Oh and any Division hunters would also have to deal with the AI in order to camp the sites and lack of AI could be an indication for Rogues that the location may have campers waiting.  Could be some fun cat and mouse second guessing  :1_grinning: .

Most of the items are already in play in the game so it should be pretty easy to implement.

 

[ThePassionateGamer]

Good to see this is generating some great conversation on the subject.

All this talk of LZs had me thinking the opposite way.  How about the Rogue drops are in the subways / underground shopping malls ?.  There are multiple entry points, they already have AI to combat to get in there.  The rogues all get an 8 minute warning on which one they have to get to and the Division get a 5 minute notification (delayed intel update).  Rogues also should not know which division LZ is being used straight away for the same reason.

Would make for some awesome close combat in the tunnels, they could drop loot in a stash like dropbox which then gets emptied after the timer goes.  Up until that point, non-rogues can raid the box so the Rogues would have to defend.  The subway / shopping mall tunnels are pretty defensible so should not be as hard as it sounds unless you are a lone rogue.  A flare can be used to signal the 'Fence' you are ready with the goods and they would provide the underground drop box location.

Oh and any Division hunters would also have to deal with the AI in order to camp the sites and lack of AI could be an indication for Rogues that the location may have campers waiting.  Could be some fun cat and mouse second guessing  :1_grinning: .

Most of the items are already in play in the game so it should be pretty easy to implement.

I like that idea...and it would be nice if the normal LZ would also get a small delay before it pops up an everybodys map instead of the 1minute you could be safe for 15-30 seconds where you call the chopper via radio and then after that time you shoot the flare to show the incoming chopper your position. Right now the system works like there are choppers circling the DZ 24/7 just to wait for a flare signal.

I also would like that you only see the extraction of either agents and rogues only when you are close enough to the extraction point to actually see the flare. So that you can't see every extraction no matter how far away like it is now.

But they have to change the fact that you can hook up your loot an be safe. You'd have to defend it too for the 15 seconds the chopper waits before lifting it up. That would offer rouges more chances but they'd have to get to the LZ faster then before and would not get informed of the extraction if they were to far away anyway.

 

[quinch1199]

I like that this is generating lots of good, balanced, ideas ... wish Massive was looking! Kinda like we're building a Wish List for the next patches. 

Additional idea - Rogue only supply drops? Drops that if you're not Rogue when you collect you have to extract but if you're Rogue you can use them immediately. Alternatively just modify the current supply drops the reverse of that .... to Non-Rogues they're "clean" but Rogues have to get them extracted. 

I'm also toying with the idea of how to make characters permanently Rogue, have Rogue only Safe Houses defended by Ai etc. As each player can have several characters they could have both Rogue and Agent characters and this might promote expanding the gear sets, drop types and even open the door to specific Rogue-like skills for example. 

Just "free forming" but it would add a Horde vs. Alliance angle into the DZ 

 

[TheDarkZone]

I don't like them not being able to extract either, but I agree that a good medium would be an alternative extraction. Being able to kill while someone is extracting and steal their gear, then immediately extract it. Isnt the way to go. I agree with blazzen on his stance of the rogues that do just that. No one likes being shot in the back and it shouldn't be rewarded.

I get that not being able to extract would fit the story line better. If they find a good alternative, then great. Not being able to extract at all though, I do not like because people would be less likely to want to go rogue.

And I totally disagree with you. Shooting someone in the back absolutely should be rewarded. It makes The Dark Zone more fun.

 

[quinch1199]

I get that not being able to extract would fit the story line better. If they find a good alternative, then great. Not being able to extract at all though, I do not like because people would be less likely to want to go rogue.

And I totally disagree with you. Shooting someone in the back absolutely should be rewarded. It makes The Dark Zone more fun.

Not any issues with being shot in the back here! I'd like it to be much more meaningful for players when they go Rogue though...changing the way they extract for example would solve a lot. Sure you can shoot this guy in the back, easy kill but ... you can't immediately extract...you're now Rogue marked, have to get through hostile areas to get to YOUR extraction point and I feel staying marked as Rogue until you've off loaded the stolen gear, or die, is a good plan (though range from which you can be detected to be reduced).