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DO NOT RUN THE DZ WITH THESE PEOPLE

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FacetiusMaximus

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So now I'm going to start a list of thieving gits whose behaviour in the DZ is inexcusable and damned unsporting. This is intended as a warning for decent players who are trying to enjoy the game, not screw each other over.

My advice is: DO NOT RUN THE DZ WITH THESE PEOPLE. In each case, I will be specific as to why they've made my sh*t list. Hopefully they can then team up with each other and steal to their black heart's content (and leave the honest players the hell alone!).

1) xElong recon: This little creep joined a team, waited for his/her fellows to die and then picked their way through the good loot. There was no attempt made to revive the downed player - I'm fairly certain xElong arrived and specifically waited for the revive timer to run out.

 
Calling players on Rogue behaviour in the DZ is a fine line....after all....the area is there specifically so you can act like a dirty rotten scoundrel.

A list of players who invite you to groups only to boot you from the group as soon as the boss is dead in the Incursion/Mission/S&D/HVT mission however .... that sort of behaviour needs highlighting as doochbaggery of the highest nature. 

Might I suggest renaming the thread as a Rogue Agent list, Agents beware?

 
If only you could trust a fellow Agent ... as Rogue status is transient though its something that's unpolicable. Something that's intrinsic to the game as well, unfortunate for us straight-cut-help-others-selflessly types but I'm honestly not sure I want it to change. 

Pity you're not on PC ... we're nice ... honest. 

 
He isn't really calling out rogue behavior.  Rogues are one thing.  What he's talking about is a whole different level of douchebaggery.  To be on a team with a guy and deliberately not revive him when he goes down just so you can steal his loot is a pretty sheety thing to do.  If it happened to me I'd be inclined to dump a full magazine into the back of his head next time I saw him.  Yup....I said the BACK of his head.  While he wasn't looking.

 
These posts always make me smile ... It's funny that people still for some reason think that the DZ is suppose to be a friendly place to run around and make friends. If you don't know the people you're playing with even if you grouped up with them, then always have "eyes in the back of your head" ... 

 
And Quinch, while I do get your point, if people want to play rogue in the DZ, fine. That's what it's there for - but rogues are marked so everyone can see them. It's the stealth rogues (or Grade-1 bastards, as I like to call them) that get under my skin. Having actually served, the people that piss you off the most aren't the ones that shoot at you honestly - they are, after all, taking the same chances as you on the battlefield - it's spies/saboteurs/infiltrators, the ones who act as your friend only to shoot you (or even worse, a mate) in the back of the head when no-one's looking. I don't like that behaviour anywhere I see it, game or not. Remember, there was a reason that Dante Alighieri put Judas Iscariot and other traitors on the very lowest level of hell in his poem The Inferno...

 
FacetiusMaximus said:
And Quinch, while I do get your point, if people want to play rogue in the DZ, fine. That's what it's there for - but rogues are marked so everyone can see them. It's the stealth rogues (or Grade-1 bastards, as I like to call them) that get under my skin. Having actually served, the people that piss you off the most aren't the ones that shoot at you honestly - they are, after all, taking the same chances as you on the battlefield - it's spies/saboteurs/infiltrators, the ones who act as your friend only to shoot you (or even worse, a mate) in the back of the head when no-one's looking. I don't like that behaviour anywhere I see it, game or not. Remember, there was a reason that Dante Alighieri put Judas Iscariot and other traitors on the very lowest level of hell in his poem The Inferno...
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I agree with Quinch, and actually you'll probably find that most people on the Forum feel this way, too.  When it comes down to it.. the fact that you're so angry and have so much passion about the dastardly act of that guy is exactly what you're supposed to feel.  I served as well, and I thoroughly agree that the underhanded wolf in sheep's clothing is by far the one that hurts the most and causes the most frustration, but if you think about it... in relation to this game, that's exactly what a Rogue would be.  Yes, everyone can see them once they out-rightly disavow The Division.  However, you have to remember that technically EVERY Division agent was a wolf in sheep's clothing in the story of the game.  We were all "sleeper agents" blending into normal society until we were activated.  It'd stand to reason that a Rogue would use that same tactic among his fellows, right?

So personally, and I feel like this is how the Game Developers would feel as well considering how they've spoken of the Dark Zone, the only people that really deserve to be called out as actually bad people are those that aren't playing the game correctly.  Those that exploit or use hacks to gain an advantage over other players are the true evil and people that should be avoided (and banned).

All that said; bringing more light to Rogues is fine and dandy.  I don't disagree with that.  I more just wanted to maybe offer another point of view rather than thinking that these people who go to extra lengths to win out as Rogues aren't necessarily playing the game wrong.. in fact, they're playing the game correctly in the Dark Zone.  If they were to do the same thing in PVE, then that's different.  The "Light" Zone isn't meant for that kind of game play.  But the Dark Zone.. as soon as you walk through that checkpoint, you're supposed to be worried.  Even if your best friend is walking next to you.. you're supposed to have in the back of your mind that it's quite possible that with the right loot, your best friend may even turn in the Dark Zone.  Increased tension is what the Game Developers wanted out of that place.

 
FacetiusMaximus said:
And Quinch, while I do get your point, if people want to play rogue in the DZ, fine. That's what it's there for - but rogues are marked so everyone can see them. It's the stealth rogues (or Grade-1 bastards, as I like to call them) that get under my skin. Having actually served, the people that piss you off the most aren't the ones that shoot at you honestly - they are, after all, taking the same chances as you on the battlefield - it's spies/saboteurs/infiltrators, the ones who act as your friend only to shoot you (or even worse, a mate) in the back of the head when no-one's looking. I don't like that behaviour anywhere I see it, game or not. Remember, there was a reason that Dante Alighieri put Judas Iscariot and other traitors on the very lowest level of hell in his poem The Inferno...
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Actually .... I may have misread what the guy did. 

Are you describing Rogue-like behaviour which doesn't actually make your character go Rogue? Letting everyone die then collecting what's left before you can respawn and get it back? 

Others may have to confirm but, isn't what you drop on death just a random selection of what you're carrying...not everything you carry? I'm remembering from Beta to be honest so this may have changed but the set way to troll rogues was to fill 8 bag slots with garbage and one with a nice item. That way the % change of you dropping the decent item was minuscule. 

If that's changed then I can see this being a deliberate duchebag tactic...however...if he's just getting two or three random items of random quality from the group of dead agents I think its a bloody stupid and time consuming idea to be honest. Perhaps a way to gain items others have without going rogue but ... is it really a valid tactic?

(and reminds me of my AD&D Neutral Evil Rogue who would often let the "heros" die, steal the map and bugger off with all he could carry)

 
DZ is getting now so my advice currently would be that unless you've run with someone in PvE a few times ... always suspect the agent next to you is a Rogue. Keep your finger on the trigger, your thumb on the detonation button.

 
I do appreciate everyone's perspective on this, really I do.

But for me, whenever I head into the Valley of (Game) Death, I want to be able to trust the guys/girls (must be PC about this) the same way I did in the "real" world. Otherwise, I'm going to end up with hypertension/have a stroke/breaking things (furniture, people...entire postal/zip codes).

It goes with the autism - unlike you NTs (neurotypicals - a word much in vogue in "the community"), I can't change who I am to suit the situation. Things that piss me off do it everywhere. I can't let it go because "it's just a game."

Shootfirst: Being a sleeper is not necessarily the same - soldiers go home to their families and essentially wait for the "next war," don't they?

Quinch: Do I really want to spend hours collecting crap just to get a few good items out of the DZ? And yes, the second kind of douche-baggery, where you act like a rogue without paying the price and triggering the flashing red skull over your head is the kind I meant...sorry for any confustication...

Note to self: Must find ways to work "douche-baggery" into conversation...excellent neologism.

 
Indeed to avoid such douche-baggery you have to get to know your comrade in arms. Remember this isn't an instance where players will hold to any form of roleplaying of character, certainly if they're players you've not fought alongside in .... safer environments ... then trust is something you can't afford. 

Suggestion, if your schedules allow, gather a couple of players to run some missions (Hard/Challenge, HVT's whatever) then suggest after you've all run a few missions that you should all head to the DZ. 

This way you might get the right sort of person. Make an evening of it. 

 
FacetiusMaximus said:
Shootfirst: Being a sleper is not necessarily the same - soldiers go home to their families and essentially wait for the "next war," don't they?
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Well, yes you're right about soldiers.  But technically, the characters we play within the game are not soldiers.. They are sleeper agents.  That was what I was trying to get at.  The actual way that the game is intended for the characters we play within the game isn't how you or I would have done things in our military units.  And technically, you could go into the Dark Zone with people you trust.. you just have to build that group that which you can trust, and then they will be your comrades-in-arms.  But you do have to treat the rest of the world, of which you do not know, just like you would the indigenous personnel in the country your military has sent you to where some will be your friends and some will simply be friends until they have the opportunity to be enemies, which is something I can recall from many of my tours. 

 
OP simply wants an "Honor Among Rogues" mentality. If you are going Rogue, cool. Man up. But don't be a thieving wuss about it and intentionally hang back and intentionally not help just to grab gear from the dead.

I absolutely agree that is horrible... but that is also exactly how real people would be in this world. DZ will bring out the best and the worst in people which is what I think the intent was. It is good that it bothers you, not bad.

 
Facetious......what time of day are you usually online?  I'm on every night from about 11:00 pm- 2am EST.  If you are on in that time frame add me to your friends list.  If I see you are on I'll send you an invite.

 
This is an incredibly stupid thread. There is nothing wrong with betraying people like that in The Dark Zone.

Hell, they even put it in one of the gameplay trailers before launch where a player left a group and attacked their own teammates at an extraction.

Outside of glitching through walls and using exploits like that, there is no behavior that is off limits in The Dark Zone, nor should any of it be frowned upon. 

I commend xElong recon for his quick thinking and for taking advantage of a situation when it presented itself in order to further his own goals. Well played. Keep up the good work!

 
I don't think it is a stupid thread... I think the DZ is exactly that but glad it bothers some people.

I saw Shootinxs once in the DZ with a sheep in the corner... I frowned upon that :(

 
TheDarkZone said:
This is an incredibly stupid thread. There is nothing wrong with betraying people like that in The Dark Zone.

Hell, they even put it in one of the gameplay trailers before launch where a player left a group and attacked their own teammates at an extraction.

Outside of glitching through walls and using exploits like that, there is no behavior that is off limits in The Dark Zone, nor should any of it be frowned upon. 

I commend xElong recon for his quick thinking and for taking advantage of a situation when it presented itself in order to further his own goals. Well played. Keep up the good work!
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I don't think this is a stupid thread by any means.. however, I do think that it should be renamed.  Bringing light to Rogues is one thing.. as a beware of these guys as they're apt to be shady.. I just don't agree that they're doing anything wrong (unless using exploits, hacks, etc. to break the game).

 
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