1.3 has ruined my build!

[Oh. daesu]

WANT!! 

Personally got a Bison last night on a tunnel run. 107 round mag capacity with my 102% magazine plus 1538 rounds carried due to LS set as well ... but I also run with 58 round G36C which has the same ammunition extra and as a back-up to my back-up M60E with 158 round magazine and another 1700 rounds being carried. 

... I .. erm ... don't run out of ammunition much 

I've tried lmg with lonestar. It has improve. Certainly fun in underground, not sure about the hectic fights of 5he incursions.

Haven't found a good shotie to try as yet. Shoties at low levels were good but most in end game makes you a lame duck.

Yeah i think the aug and vector were definitely nerf worthy. 

Tho some of these new benefits are pve only, *shrugs*

 

[Maximus]

This is a valid point and it seems like an easy solution.  However, this will create an arms race:

*gun A is OP, so they buff guns B, C, D...

*gun B is now OP, so they buff guns A, C, D...

*and so on...

That's why they balance the weapons, like changing the crit hit to crit DMG on SMGs and adjusting the buffs on the other weapon types.  

I agree that singling out weapons (Vector, AUG, G36) can be kind of garbage, but they realized these weapons had a base damage that was out of line with other weapons.  Again, if they up all the other weapons then you have to up skills, stats, etc. to return the game to 

If they nerf everything(which is what we're getting to) then there is no such thing as a high end.   They should have made true superior guns(high ends) in each weapon class, specifically the named guns;  You could always have a counter with armor/gear/toughness.  Once u make everything a water pistol, then what's the point in a looting based game? 

Isn't the objective to get high end gear?  When it gets to a point of taking forever to kill something then I don't see the point.   Essentially toughness should make the difference in the end.

 

[DeadSockPuppet]

If they nerf everything(which is what we're getting to) then there is no such thing as a high end.   They should have made true superior guns(high ends) in each weapon class, specifically the named guns;  You could always have a counter with armor/gear/toughness.  Once u make everything a water pistol, then what's the point in a looting based game? 

Isn't the objective to get high end gear?  When it gets to a point of taking forever to kill something then I don't see the point.   Essentially toughness should make the difference in the end.

The point I was trying to make is that if they leave OP guns OP, then they might as well just drop those weapons because that's what everyone will use otherwise you'll be handicapped.  If they keep trying to just increase stats, things will spiral out of control until everything is a one shot kill. 

As for the part about true superior guns, I think everyone was confused because Massibe wasn't sure if they wanted to be like Destiny with grinds just to get special gear (liked named guns) or if they wanted to be like Diablo 3 where loot falls like Skittles everywhere and you're constantly tweaking and revamping.  

Since they've decided to go the second route, they should change named guns to a different color and maybe call them Ultras or something.  They should have them in the same levels as other weapons (ex 163, 182, 204, etc.) and make the damage amounts one range step higher than HE (i.e. 163 ultra DMG is like 182 HE).

They should also redo the talents so the talents are the best for that weapon class and not the garbage ones they currently have (ex sniper with some combo of fierce/steady/coolheaded/self-preserved/stable/accurate/brutal) and maybe give them 4 talents if they're a step up.  Make these weapons something that players could make a build around.  If a DMR could give the shooter health from kills, you could make a true glass high DPS, low toughness build.

Finally, they should be gained only from drops (no buying or crafting) and possibly not eligible for trading.  This might be debateable, but if Massive wants them to the the coveted OP weapons, they have to be earned. 

But that's just my opinion...

 

[Maximus]

The point I was trying to make is that if they leave OP guns OP, then they might as well just drop those weapons because that's what everyone will use otherwise you'll be handicapped.  If they keep trying to just increase stats, things will spiral out of control until everything is a one shot kill. 

As for the part about true superior guns, I think everyone was confused because Massibe wasn't sure if they wanted to be like Destiny with grinds just to get special gear (liked named guns) or if they wanted to be like Diablo 3 where loot falls like Skittles everywhere and you're constantly tweaking and revamping.  

Since they've decided to go the second route, they should change named guns to a different color and maybe call them Ultras or something.  They should have them in the same levels as other weapons (ex 163, 182, 204, etc.) and make the damage amounts one range step higher than HE (i.e. 163 ultra DMG is like 182 HE).

They should also redo the talents so the talents are the best for that weapon class and not the garbage ones they currently have (ex sniper with some combo of fierce/steady/coolheaded/self-preserved/stable/accurate/brutal) and maybe give them 4 talents if they're a step up.  Make these weapons something that players could make a build around.  If a DMR could give the shooter health from kills, you could make a true glass high DPS, low toughness build.

Finally, they should be gained only from drops (no buying or crafting) and possibly not eligible for trading.  This might be debateable, but if Massive wants them to the the coveted OP weapons, they have to be earned. 

But that's just my opinion...

I understand.   I just think the game isn't worth playing if every single gun is watered down and thus cannot kill intended targets.  Also that would be unrealistic.  

Balance?   That's a term I see used but I think ppl are missing the agenda.   In life, their isn't a balance.  Some things are simply better than others.  Cars, cell phones, computers, etc..  Some things are better and understandably so.   So making a balance and all guns equal is really unrealistic because all guns are not equal.   I think they simply need to improve the other weapon classes.

And I don't they they unintentionally made the G36 OP.   I think they deliberately did that to get ppl off the popular SMGs, then nerf it later.  They classic bait & switch.   

Ultimately I think the devs have good ideals, and potential.   But they lack the true insight, talent, and focus to make this game truly remarkable.  The division is a game with great potential, its just starting to look like the Devs just don't have that ability to achieve true greatness.

 

[DeadSockPuppet]

A lot of good thoughts there @Maximus.  I think a lot of the problems come from trying to make weapons and gear equal in both PvE and PvP.  If there was a completely separate PvP area (like Destiny's Crucible) that was normalized, I think they wouldn't have to change the weapons so often and if there are OP or meta weapons, they wouldn't be as big of an issue.  

Often I tend to not like the meta weapons (although I'm reluctantly really starting to love my 204 AUG), so I tend to try other weapons and different offensive mixes.  Then again, I'm a casual and only play about 8-10 hrs a week so I don't get bored of the content or my characters like hardcore players do. 

 

[MurphDog6]

The point I was trying to make is that if they leave OP guns OP, then they might as well just drop those weapons because that's what everyone will use otherwise you'll be handicapped.  If they keep trying to just increase stats, things will spiral out of control until everything is a one shot kill. 

As for the part about true superior guns, I think everyone was confused because Massibe wasn't sure if they wanted to be like Destiny with grinds just to get special gear (liked named guns) or if they wanted to be like Diablo 3 where loot falls like Skittles everywhere and you're constantly tweaking and revamping.  

Since they've decided to go the second route, they should change named guns to a different color and maybe call them Ultras or something.  They should have them in the same levels as other weapons (ex 163, 182, 204, etc.) and make the damage amounts one range step higher than HE (i.e. 163 ultra DMG is like 182 HE).

They should also redo the talents so the talents are the best for that weapon class and not the garbage ones they currently have (ex sniper with some combo of fierce/steady/coolheaded/self-preserved/stable/accurate/brutal) and maybe give them 4 talents if they're a step up.  Make these weapons something that players could make a build around.  If a DMR could give the shooter health from kills, you could make a true glass high DPS, low toughness build.

Finally, they should be gained only from drops (no buying or crafting) and possibly not eligible for trading.  This might be debateable, but if Massive wants them to the the coveted OP weapons, they have to be earned. 

But that's just my opinion...

Something seriously needs to be done with the named weapons and I think you have a good idea here! Since getting 204 weapons you don't ever see anyone with a named weapon much anymore. Really enjoyed my Midas days in this game. But all named weapons should be available to all GS ranges at least! Not just locked to a certain GS! (Midas is always 182, Hungry hog always 204 etc.)

 

[DeadSockPuppet]

Completely agree, they should at a min be at each GS lvl.  But if they don't have better talents, they'll never get used because people will get blueprints for the same type/style of weapon and roll it until they get the talents they want.  

 

[MurphDog6]

Completely agree, they should at a min be at each GS lvl.  But if they don't have better talents, they'll never get used because people will get blueprints for the same type/style of weapon and roll it until they get the talents they want.  

There should be something special about them other than the name for sure! Should have an increased base damage or higher fire rate or higher weapon bonus or something like that! With being able to roll talents on guns now you can swap one bad talent out but as you said if all the talents are pointless then they will not be used. As a gamer you will always use a plain black gun with better talents and damage than a shiny named gold weapon.

 

[OlBoy88]

Great to see this thread generating such great conversation. I've listened to you guys and tweaked my build considerably. I'm currently rocking 2 final measure, 1 reckless chest piece (229) and 3 Alphabridge. My stats are currently quite balanced with DPS at 250k, Toughness at 400k and Skill at 22k. I was lucky enough to pick up some 268 Alphabridge with good major and minor attributes which has helped a lot. 

 

[MurphDog6]

The entire forum is filled with useful info that can help people out a lot! I myself like to try and be balanced, for PvE this is fine but it still appears that in PvP the "TANKTICIAN" is still the way to go

 

[DeadSockPuppet]

Hmmm, might have to rethink my shotty rusher build a little.  Was planning lone star x4/predator's mark x2 but I might go x3 lone star/x3 alphabridge.   Still get the +100% ammo and +1k shotty damage to pair with +2 med kits and +100 health regen.   The loss of +20% range (x2 PM) and swap to reload (4th LS) would probably be worth it.  And if you keep the medic and police bags for weapon pickup, you'd net +175 ammo and 9 med packs.

 

[OlBoy88]

Hmmm, might have to rethink my shotty rusher build a little.  Was planning lone star x4/predator's mark x2 but I might go x3 lone star/x3 alphabridge.   Still get the +100% ammo and +1k shotty damage to pair with +2 med kits and +100 health regen.   The loss of +20% range (x2 PM) and swap to reload (4th LS) would probably be worth it.  And if you keep the medic and police bags for weapon pickup, you'd net +175 ammo and 9 med packs.

I'll be honest - I don't like Lone Star. I know Skill Up and a few others have said it's got real potential but I've never felt it. I do put on two pieces of Lone Star to restock but then swap back once I've got the double ammo (lame I know!).  If you're using Shotguns have you considered 4-5 piece sentry? You'd get a beastly increase on DPS. I've found crafting/picking up the right mods can make a HUGE difference too. 

 

[ESGN]

Imo, sentry is a must if youre running a shotgun, especially when youre in a group.  Although it may not be as viable when running solo.  Ive ran into one player so far running sg/sentry build. with three marks he could take my health down a bar(if most or all pellets hit).  My health is at 115k with 75% mitigation.  Here is my build incase you didnt see it in the other thread.  

 

[Cpl vinny]

Without experience with the new gear, at the moment, "TANKtician" is still the way to go for PvP as far as I know. As I'm focusing on PvE more I've dropped my Tactician gear that I had. 

I do run 4 piece tak all the time for now due to my type of playing, but I have 29K skill, 412K tough and 140 DPS, and I get same result if I put 2 pieces hunter faiths or striker or final measures or sentrys maybe +-10k dps...

Of course I play on PS4, and the patch is tomorrow, we will see how it goes! But My build is pretty strong for PVE and PVP.

I don't understand one thing, yesterday I was running into DZ and my bonus was not fonctionning with the 4 pieces. We were running 2 guy 4 piece tak (1 is myself)...and 2 others high dps but my bonus was not showing up! If somebody had that before?

 

[DeadSockPuppet]

@OlBoy88 & @ESGN I'll have to take a look at the sentry.  I'll probably try the 4x LS and 2x PM to see how that build works before possibly switching to something like sentry.  

 

[OlBoy88]

This is what I'm now running with post update 1.3. It's 3 Alphabridge, 2 Final Measure and 1 Reckless Chest. 

 

[OlBoy88]

Imo, sentry is a must if youre running a shotgun, especially when youre in a group.  Although it may not be as viable when running solo.  Ive ran into one player so far running sg/sentry build. with three marks he could take my health down a bar(if most or all pellets hit).  My health is at 115k with 75% mitigation.  Here is my build incase you didnt see it in the other thread.  

View attachment 737

 Killer build!

 

[ESGN]

This is what I'm now running with post update 1.3. It's 3 Alphabridge, 2 Final Measure and 1 Reckless Chest. 

Nice! What is the bonus for 3 alpha bridge and did your gloves have 2 attributes?  Was your holster pre 1.3?

 

[OlBoy88]

Bonus for 3 Alpha is 100% Health regen (while in cover) and I can't remember the attributes on the Gloves. I've actually tweaked my build slightly again and have higher DPS and toughness but slightly lower skill. 

 

[ESGN]

Bonus for 3 Alpha is 100% Health regen (while in cover) and I can't remember the attributes on the Gloves. I've actually tweaked my build slightly again and have higher DPS and toughness but slightly lower skill. 

I tweaked mine too. now I have 200 dps, 487k toughness and 17k electronics.