My Thoughts on the 1.4 Announcement

[Big Grumper]

I've been wondering what you've been up to.  Chippy, Voyager, and I are probably going to run some anything but DZ this weekend.  I've been tweaking my builds a little and I want to put them through their paces and the guys are getting itchy trigger fingers.  I'm not sure if we'll be on late, late to run with you, but we'll see.  And my wife works all day Saturday, so I might be playing during the day, depending on what projects and crafts the kiddo wants me to make with her.

I'm still alive buddy! Work has been busy and our field hockey season has just restated (I coach.....a lot). With that being said I've not felt the urge to play as UG has become a boring grind. 

I figure a few weeks off might kick start my interest. 

 

[RaneMokeev]

A couple of my friends and I jumped on last night and played as a group for the first time in over a month.  We ran HVT for s couple hours with a random that was around 225 and then did the top weekly HVT.  The random lucked out because the HVT was a 4 boss mission so there was loot galore for him and he ended up around GS 240 in the end.  Not sure what the quality of his stuff was, but we had fun, helped him out and ended up with a new PSN friend.  

He hadn't been on the game since around 1.2, so there was a lot of new stuff for him and he was looking to get back in the swing of things.  It was nice to be able to chat about the meta and then give him our take on what parts of the meta we accept and what things we prefer instead. 

I think instead of spending all of our time on the division like we used to, we'll probably run once a week or so and make sure we jump on for our supply drops, so we're still comfortable with the game when 1.4 drops. 

I'm still playing a little bit everyday, and with a group on Saturdays...the OCD part of me hates to lose a play streak.  But! I've also gotten sucked into Destiny...holy crap, it's actually pretty damn good! lol

 

[DeadSockPuppet]

Yeah, I need to give Destiny a go again.  I've been off that since division dropped, with the exception of jumping on a month or so ago to buy the Bones from Xur for my hunter.  I was looking for those forever when I actively played the game.  

 

[quinch1199]

This is the way I understand things changing too and it should be a good boost for the game.  However, I would like to see them address some of the other issues the game has.  I also hope that introducing these big changes don't cause a bunch of new problems.  

So... the chances of actually getting drops for established characters that are already in top tier classification which will move the character or improve any stats will now be officially ... impossible?

IS that how you read it?

If so, they're going to alienate and make even MORE players move away from the game. 

I know I've likened this game to an MMO like WoW but end of the day ... it ISNT World of Warcraft. In that game you have plenty of things to do still once you hit top tier and also have the best gear from environment building to endless roleplay in the Open World...you have none of that in The Division to keep top tier players happy and busy and taking the ONE THING away from them that kept them playing...has to be the worse choice ever!

 

[quinch1199]

This is worth the read for those of you that haven't watched anything on the 9/15 SotG: 

http://tomclancy-thedivision.ubi.com/game/en-GB/news/detail.aspx?c=tcm:154-267742-16&ct=tcm:148-76770-32

I've read in full and unlike yourself I'm not quite as positive. I don't feel they're addressing many of the RIGHT issues facing the game. I have never, for example, thought there was any issues with how PvE action went. Sure enemies were bullet sponges but...now they get killed faster, you run out of things to do faster. 

It just seems to be pandering to players not wishing to invest any real time in the game. Sure making it more available to solo and casual gamers appears better BUT this doesn't encourage those players to ever actually WANT to invest more time, money in the game OR develop themselves into actually GOOD players by doing homework, research, learning the metagame.

It feels like a "dumbing down" of the game to encourage a more pick-up-and-play CoD style gamer activity which I just don't like ... this game had depth!! IT was hidden, poorly executed ... but it was there ... now it seems they want to cover that it in an icky-sticky sugar coating because "Wahhh-Wahhhh...gamez tooz hardz, why can't I just facehug PvE enemez n'win"

*Sigh* 

Acknowledging that there is an issue with difficulty scaling does NOT mean you need to downscale your hardest levels!! IT means you need something between the levels that better prepares the player. I can hope that being able to have a multilayer open world will allow them to introduce more Environmental improvements within a persons game...positive changes that you can effect by your actions...but there's no mention of this so currently I doubt it. 

None of ths addresses how an item of gears abilities or "power" is calculated either. For example how can I have a GS204 item which is far superior in every metric to a GS229? You should NEVER get a gear item with a high score only to find its WORSE than lesser items you have...NEVER..PERIOD...THAT'S IT...ITS WRONG. 

 

[DeadSockPuppet]

I took a month off from the game and even when I played I only played about 8-10 hrs a week.  I'm trying to be optimistic that I didn't sink $100 (with season pass) into a game that's broken beyond repair.  

 

[quinch1199]

I took a month off from the game and even when I played I only played about 8-10 hrs a week.  I'm trying to be optimistic that I didn't sink $100 (with season pass) into a game that's broken beyond repair.  

Now you see, my view is that the game may be broken but its far from "beyond repair". It needs some TLC and big chunks are playable and enjoyable. The PvE is still generally really good, in particular if you take Underground as a stand alone dungeon crawl game its honestly GREAT! Matchmaker is pretty much flawless, randomly generated dungeons are great. Where it falls down is the same places as open world... reward vs. time at top level. Once you start hitting the 229-248GS level you're pretty much being trolled by the game. 

However, as a GAMING EXPERIENCE, I can't flaw the level design.

 

[DeadSockPuppet]

Now you see, my view is that the game may be broken but its far from "beyond repair". It needs some TLC and big chunks are playable and enjoyable. The PvE is still generally really good, in particular if you take Underground as a stand alone dungeon crawl game its honestly GREAT! Matchmaker is pretty much flawless, randomly generated dungeons are great. Where it falls down is the same places as open world... reward vs. time at top level. Once you start hitting the 229-248GS level you're pretty much being trolled by the game. 

However, as a GAMING EXPERIENCE, I can't flaw the level design.

I completely agree with this.  I don't think it's beyond repair, but there are many former players of the game that do.  Like I mentioned, I'm a casual so it takes me a lot longer to get ticked with the things that these try hards get butthurt about.  

While I haven't played a ton of UG, and because I usually only play hard with 1 phase and 2 directives (only lvl 15), I don't tend to get usable loot from my runs.  However, I have fun and I get decent pieces from the caches.  The last handful of times I've had more fun helping to run lower GS players through UG.  This last weekend my friends and I ran UG and HVT and ended up showering the GS 210 player in our group will all sorts of loot, most of which became mats, but some helped him get his GS up to around 235/240.

 

[quinch1199]

IF we completely ignore PvP we can say the PvE part of the game can be vastly improved by some very minor redressing, some is being resolved in this patch, but ... from my point of view... more important ones apparently are being made worse or being ignored. 

Whilst removing the spongeability of enemies is pretty good, from the charts given I feel they've gone WAY to far which will only compound the other main issue that they are apparently ignoring completely  - character development/progression. 

I can run any number of PvE missions, Open world, Incursion or Underground and the chances of me getting anything that improves my character at all are so tiny as it makes it a waste of time to run the game. If they just tweaked the random generator for gear/weapon skills, raw power etc so that people felt that at least 1 out of 5-10 runs they get SOMETHING that they can use rather than just another item to make materials from... that would greatly improve playability. 

Adding environmental changes based on player actions I really think should be a focus for them now though, just adding more content patches that are just extensions to the existing "non-developing" open world AND without adding story content is purely financial suicide in my opinion. If you don't add something that EVOLVES within a game or GROWS and is actively influenced by player actions then there is no player engagement...it rapidly gets boring and there is no emotional investment from the player meaning they just drop the game and move on. 

Example: If I have a game where I have an open environment. Say during my play I've managed to unlock a shop or a house or even a base. That is MINE, perhaps not all players have unlocked it. I immediately have an emotional an psychological link to the game world.

I have claimed this, I "built" this, it is mine.

Now imagine that if I leave the game I lose it. Roaming gangs move back in and I cant have that shop/house/base anymore? I'm upset, hurt, this is infringing on something a bit special to me. 

I'm connected and I know I have to go back to maintain that place as my own.

Unlike my character... who respawns (undamaged!)... I have something I have to defend. Now have perhaps dozens of these "points of interest"...have different types, have them do different things and ...

...boom!

now you have a GAME

 

[DeadSockPuppet]

If they just tweaked the random generator for gear/weapon skills, raw power etc so that people felt that at least 1 out of 5-10 runs they get SOMETHING that they can use rather than just another item to make materials from... that would greatly improve playability. 

I think they'll address this (not really but kinda??) with the new tier system and tier based rewards.  If you're running tier 4, all of your rewards for bosses (and sometimes trash mobs) will be 229 gear.  I'm guessing they won't change what gear RNGesus blesses you with, but it should be 229.  

 

[quinch1199]

I think they'll address this (not really but kinda??) with the new tier system and tier based rewards.  If you're running tier 4, all of your rewards for bosses (and sometimes trash mobs) will be 229 gear.  I'm guessing they won't change what gear RNGesus blesses you with, but it should be 229.  

Its not the Gear Score rating I'm talking about though ... I'm getting high Gear Score...gear .. but its the actual Stats and power of the items I'm getting. 

It is literally all ... junk. Easiest example I have is a G36c I got in the Underground in only my 2nd or third Cache. Since the 15% reduction in DPS its base output is 65k. Gear Score - 204

I am getting REGULAR 229 drops of weapons in the Underground. NOT...A ...SINGLE... ONE... has ever come close in base DPS and 100% of the time the base talents are junk as well. 

Likewise I am getting 268 Gear and I'm stuck with a lot of 240 still because the talents, values on the 268's are junk. 

Is that RNG? Yes, but gear of a higher GS should (in my opinion) ALWAYS have at least one stat that is higher than lower GS items!

 

[DeadSockPuppet]

Yeah, I can play about 40 hrs in a month and get like 2-3 useable items, and usually at least 1 comes from the 4 supply drops I get from season pass. 

 

[quinch1199]

Yeah, I can play about 40 hrs in a month and get like 2-3 useable items, and usually at least 1 comes from the 4 supply drops I get from season pass. 

Y'know... I don't mind getting items that DONT progress my character AS LONG AS THEY'RE THE SAME GEAR SCORE AS STUFF I ALREADY HAVE!

What annoys the hell out of me is getting GS items that are WORSE in every single way to low gear items I already have, thats the issue for me! IF I have a GS204 gun and I run Incursions/Underground levels and get constant drops of 229 weapons ... why aren't ALL of these weapons better "in some way" to the 204's I already have?!?

The Logic defies me!!

Its like repeatedly running a Dungeon in WoW for an armour set drop, only for it to drop and you find that its WORSE than the lower level armour you crafted weeks ago! Know what, you NEVER hear that happening because its FECKIN' STUPID!

 

[DeadSockPuppet]

What annoys the hell out of me is getting GS items that are WORSE in every single way to low gear items I already have, thats the issue for me! IF I have a GS204 gun and I run Incursions/Underground levels and get constant drops of 229 weapons ... why aren't ALL of these weapons better "in some way" to the 204's I already have?!?

You're preaching to the choir on this one.  My main has a 204 tach mk16 he's been running for like 2+ months.  I've built the toon with some bonus AR damage, so I've been looking for a good 229 AR and I can't find one.  The best I've found was a G36 (I think) but it's DMG was only 10.3k vs 10.2k and the DPS wasn't even close when I swapped the mods from the mk16.   

Basicaly, the game is telling me the 204 I have is a god roll and I won't find something better.  By itself it is 161k DPS and has vicious, brutal and destructive.  With 4x AB and using my 204 LVOA-C as a secondary, the DPS jumps to 205k by adding swift, deadly and fierce.  Yeah, that's a pretty wicked set of talents (3 or 6) and the DMG is great, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't get something better at some point. 

 

[quinch1199]

Weapons are the easy one to fix to be honest. Talents can be re-rolled but base DPS (or damage per bullet) has to be higher than lower gear score items or none of it makes any sense does it. 

God rolls should only apply to talents and passive buffs..not core stats. What game does that!

 

[DeadSockPuppet]

That's why I'm pissed my 204 with 10.2k DMG is better than pretty much any othe AR I get.  

 

[RimBlock]

Apparently they are removing the overlap between GS levels (mentioned on the live stream IIRC).  Should fix that issue.

Only another [mumbling] to go  :10_wink: .

It is looking interesting from what they have been saying.  We will see as they have said a lot in the past that has not worked out as expected or well at all.

Hopeful but won't be surprised if it all comes crashing down again.

 

[quinch1199]

I'm VERY interested to find out what the changes actually mean for practical gameplay and character building but concerned they seem to be focused on smaller issues this time around that are both difficult to get right AND not the issues people mainly complain about. 

 

[DeadSockPuppet]

There is definitely a lot of potential here, but I agree that there's a lot of Known Issues that they have with the game that aren't being addressed.  One could almost look at this as though it's a smoke screen to cover some of the broken.  They're hoping that people will be like "OOH, SHINY" and forget they're pissed about things... assuming the changes that the make don't end up broken.  If the changes work as they suggest, I think I'll be pleased with the update.  

 

[supercat]

So what's the full story here? I saw nerfs and buffs across weapons. Alright.

But SkillUp said they're changing the game into Open World. How's this gonna work?

Sold my copy a week ago. LOL. If the 1.4 gonna be good, I'll rebuy another used copy (if it's still around because nobody give a fk anymore here).