Population Balance

[ESPADAS03]

So I have played the division since day one and I have mixed feelings for it, on one side I enjoy it but on the other side I absolutely hate it.

The days I have to go into the darkzone be it to get 100 kills on elite enemies or some moronic reason to have a weekly challenge limited to one spectrum of the game why cant it be in or out of the darkzone , or to well actually that was the only reason I had to go recently. oh and the cleaner kills.

Ok well that be said whenever I go in there I go solo because most of my fiends don't like going in there for good reason it should be dubbed the Dbag Zone, essentially if your not being a total DBag in the darkzone UBISOFT gets mad. but that's the nature of the beast I guess. what I'm getting at is now with the new content with these HVT and intel points I no longer need to venture into the darkzone I can score amazing gear outside and use that gear to play incursion missions to score even better gear. plus sometimes the HVT missions are fun I even play them solo for an added challenge usually I have some extra intel credits just incase I get fudged up by the AI, so it may sound like I hate the darkzone which I do but the thing is now there is a solution for those who rather not bother with the dark zone we have our sanctuary outside of it with plenty of content and rewards yes it takes some longer grind times to add up the intel creits to get these rewards but it a fantastic balance to the darkzone rewards over risk benefit.

For this I am happy though me and the darkzone will be no more. 

 

[supercat]

Last time I checked, DZ 201+ has gone empty.

Previously in a week ago, I would find a ratio of 1:1 between normal and rogue. And that wasn't even many in total.

 

[ESPADAS03]

Last time I checked, DZ 201+ has gone empty.

Previously in a week ago, I would find a ratio of 1:1 between normal and rogue. And that wasn't even many in total.

It is fairly empty in DZ and for various reasons, the fact that people can easily overpower you betray you and steal your loot though being part of the experience and adds the thrill factor can also get old very fast if it happens over and over and over, some people just don't care for that all the time, I seem to get placed in some DZ when I would go in where rogues were abundant, honestly between being killed by the newer stronger AI and the amount of rogues killing me I was essentially dropped a few levels, by the time I was able to extract a few of these sealed caches which I was under the impression would hold some amazing items... I was douped and received items way below my gear score and only hindered me.

Essentially I found this new DarkZone not even worth it not only that but the supply drops reward me with sub par gear and the risk of running to get one killing the AI around it fighting off some agents or getting there before them was not worth it when all I received was a level 186 weapon that was a joke compared to my 204 weapons oh and some sight that did nothing for me... to me the DARKZONE is extremely overhyped as far as the loot that gets dropped rarely is anything worth extracting dropped you essentially need to level up get DZ funds and buy the good stuff  but with players essentially doing rank control where they go around and kill other players to keep them below the certain level the DARKZONE keeps falling further and further back in my favorites list.  Even when I go in with a team we still eventually lose out because non of the really high level gear guys want to help me since they have there own agenda and view me as a bother to their quest.

The darkzone is essentially what it is an unfair madhouse where the strongest survive and the newer or not as strong plaayers just keep falling behind no matter how hard they try to grind because the already strongest players will always keep them below a certain level with the power of the trolling. eventually players get tired of this and move on to other things while people make non intellectual comments like " stop complaining you scrub that's how the game works" the population will suffer. think of it like deer hunting the reason its regulated and we cant just go on a free for all is to ensure the population stays healthy so we don't over hunt since its not much for food but for sport.

This would apply to agents and how they treat other players, if you go rogue and just try to destroy everyone and play in  selfish matter essentially you will over hunt all the deer in the darkzone essentially the solo or less capable players, this will cause for more and more newer players and current players to just get tired of this because the DZ01 and DZ02 were essentially the lower level weaker areas but they get farmed by the better players who should be staying in the DZ 03 and up area rather they go to the place they know they have an over advantage and exploit it creating bad friction between players of the game. eventually the Darkzone Dbags will fin that only they are the ones left and well who is left to troll if the trolls are the ones left right.       

You wont catch me much in the Darkzone  I only recently went in and it was only to grind those cleaner and ISAC challenges as fast as I could in the shortest amount of time to avoid having to go into the Darkzone and while I was trying to get my kills I was trolled to prevent me from getting the kills literally people followed me to stop me from killing cleaners why just because they found it fun  to prevent me from attaining a goal that if or if  not achieved would impact their gameplay essentially they did it just to be dicks and well that kills the game for me as it has no actual point but to ruin another players experience.

 

[supercat]

Yep. That's exactly how I personally feel. Me and my team have retired from DZ. Now we can't even collect junks from there, so I said to just leave DZ and move on to something less but more assuring, which is the PvE mode.

Tbh, I love the DZ for the loot, for the spontaneous actions happening, for the ability to meet up with other player, whether to run together or competing for something. However, the Rogues are seriously getting out of hand. Like I've said in Ubisoft forum, I can't call the PvP feature as "Player vs Player", it's "Player vs Pest" instead.

The Rogues are typically have a top line of gear equipped, running in the area where lower geared people are trying to farm weapon or resource to get better in the game, and then they kill these people while at the same time, they tell them to "get good". Okay, so we are actually trying to "get good" in this game by farming in the DZ, killing enemies in the suitable areas for our current strength with our effort and time and definitely without your aid, and then you, Rogues, come in, picking the trail of war spoils, then proceed to sabotage us, steal our Key, DZ money and loot over and over again and then tell us to "get good". Thank you so much for making a great barricade that blocks our way towards the ladder to go up.

I honestly have no other word than 'pest' to perfectly describe this act of filling your own stomach by taking people's time, really.

And I honestly not wondering if DZ is empty or one day it will be completely empty.

 

[quinch1199]

We're a pretty positive community here and I think the main issue with the DZ is being highlighted nicely in my opinion.

Namely we like the idea behind the DZ, we even like the concept of Rogues and all around that and the possibilities it holds. 

What we DON'T like is not getting an even chance. Getting taken down even before you've registered the first hit (i.e. being taken down in 1-3 shots). 

If a Rogue starts shooting you, and its a one-on-one situation, even if he's got the jump on you, the opportunity to fight back is needed. There shouldn't be any instance where a 1 vs. 1 situation should be so one sided.

Now, think about it, if a "match making" system worked then Rogues would have to play smarter. Lay ambushes better with a combination of explosives as well as gunfire. Or work in teams to take down single agents yet meaning they have to back off if they see groups of even numbers. 

To me that would go a long way to ease the issue. 

Downside to this is that groups of Agents will have to be in a far more narrow band of Gear Score OR how a characters "power" is calculated will have to be far more indepth...all of these will mean longer times to find Agents to group with, Agents less able to join friends in the DZ as the power ratings of them aren't the same etc. 

 

[ESPADAS03]

Yea I agree with most of these responses especially the make it more of a challenge for rogues to overpower essentially it is no challenge, I also suggest perhaps not having levels drop if a player kills you because it leaves an exploit for level blocking. if the AI kill you over and over level drops because you can easily approach a different group of weaker AI where as the same high level players can target less skilled or not so high level geared players and drop them a few levels by hunting them and killing over and over especially in my case where most of the DZ is rogue.

I tend to get trolled but the day I was pretty even with the trolls as far as firepower they actually backed off but that was a few and far between case, for I tend to be at the bottom of the spectrum of things because with or without a team I find I move up 10 steps and the trolls drop me 12 steps back and like it was said they give you the whole get good mentality which they don't realize that they themselves are preventing you from actually getting better. I would say hey why not let me level up to your level than we go head to head and see who comes out on top I mean lets make this an actual challenge right, but they don't want an actual challenge they just want to pick on the weaker agents or less geared agents and then go and purposely ruin the game experience for them.

This is what has been hurting the population of the DZ is  there is no balance between knowing when to quit being a rogue honestly if I was a rogue I would  go after other high level players because I know they are more capable of attacking stronger enemies and getting better loot while with the lower end players your getting useless items.

and again I believe there is a population who don't go into the DZ to do anything other than Troll people because they get some sick kick for it because they see no actual consequence if anything Ubisoft rewards this behavior, but don't realize eventually even the Trolls will get bored of this because no one will be left to Troll. think of it like the southpark episode where that one guy was just running around in World of Warcraft destroying everyone to the point where people canceled accounts, essentially ruining the overall community experience.

That will soon creep its way into the division darkzone  as far as the PVE end its more than great currently with all the content but the darkzone to me seems to get worse and worse by the day with people just being abusive,  I honestly had this idea for the darkzone

The DZ01 area is a no rogue area meaning you cant go rogue here so no insentive to go into the lower level area and pick off the low gear agents. where as if the more challenging areas after DZ01 are roguetopias you can go rogue here but you have a higher chance of running into agents who can be on par with you meaning no easy meals.  and that's essentially what will prevent abusive trolling is take away the easy meals from the rogues make them work for it just as hard as non rogue agents have to work for there loot.

you want to go rogue great but be prepared to go head to head with some strong agents and the strongest AI I feel this wold be a great balance because it will make agents think twice and way the odds of going rogue facing other on par agents and AI or just wait it out maybe recollect, because as it stands right now the rogues just go kill the low end spectrum go rogue rack up kills and rank up fast by not finding challenges rather taking the easy route of kills and the rest of the population gets trapped in levels 50 and below.

And the thing is there are some who wont agree to this they feel its you should just "GET GUD BRO" and those are the agent players who essentially are the problem they don't want a challenge they want easy mealtickets to the top little to no resistance but in the end they will find zero resistance because no one will be there to resist it will just become a player vs AI world because everyone else has decide eh not worth it. 

and these player brackets seem a bit disbalanced as well because I'm at gear score 209 I think or 207 ish but if I run into a 218 I have literally zero chance against them and if its 2 or more well might as well just give up.  and who wants to play a agm where the other guys are always going to be better and you have zero chance no matter how good you get because they are always better.

Imagine if the rogues were forced to only go rogue in areas where they only run into likewise agents meaning a player who can kill in 3 shots runs into another player who can kill in 3 or 4 shots. he probably wont troll as much in fact he may try to avoid that guy and rethink his extraction process becau ehe knows it wont be as easy as aim pont shoot and get loot nope some actual strategy would have to be used.

My strategy to kill a rogue team worked once, I shot some AI lead them to them had them shoot the AI and while they were busy I was blasting them from there exposed side essentially they could not defend on both fronts but I picked off the left over AI since they weakened them  got my loot back got more loot and took off to some way far awayarea to avoid respawn revenge form them but it was a strategy that took precise thinking careful movements and a small amount of luck but it was fun and felt like I was actually being an agent not just some bullet sponge who can one shot people.  it felt challenging to me. this is what I wish the DZ was  but its not its just a strongest bully wins the game place. and Ubisoft happily promotes this and wonders why the DZ is not doing so well.

 

[ShootFirstPodcast]

Downside to this is that groups of Agents will have to be in a far more narrow band of Gear Score OR how a characters "power" is calculated will have to be far more indepth...all of these will mean longer times to find Agents to group with, Agents less able to join friends in the DZ as the power ratings of them aren't the same etc. 

Personally I think that after a little while of people being able to gear up outside of the Dark Zone in a way that makes them more competitive with the highest level geared people in the Dark Zone will mean that the Dark Zone will be used more often soon.  If there's any decrease in the population of the Dark Zone, it's only because people have realized that they can get the highest level gear outside of it.. they don't have to risk as much to gear up.  Risk/reward is better outside of the Dark Zone currently for most players.  However, once they've gotten high enough.. they'll feel comfortable being in the Dark Zone again.  That's my personal opinion of it.

 

[KidGreengene]

In the beginning, no one was going rogue because the risk was too high. But now the pendulum has swung too far back to the left. I honestly can't recall the last time I came across a group that didn't go rogue on us soon after running by us. All the risk, now, is on the people that don't go rogue. I like the DZ but yeah, all my friends are bailing on it now too after last night. DZ201+ is going to be one group of rogues, one group of people trying to avoid them... and that's it. The days of me coming across a random guy and it turning into a "good" experience are over.

 

[RaneMokeev]

I just wish there could be a "leave me alone" option in the DZ.  From what I remember, GTA Online had/has a feature where you can be exempt from any PvP.  While in that mode you obviously can't shoot anyone else, but they can't shoot you either.  I think that'd be a fine solution to allow those who want to fight others to do so, and for those who'd rather take on DZ mobs to be left alone for a while.

 

[KidGreengene]

I don't know if I like that option... I think the DZ is the PvP arena of Division. The "leave me alone" option is the HVT's now. I mainly just want shoot outs. I want actual risk to going rogue. Maybe see it split by rogue kills (both for and against). If you have 20 kills as a rogue or on a rogue, you are in a separate instance than someone who has 2. I don't know if something like that can work in practice, though.

 

[TheDarkZone]

I think the only thing I would like to see adjusted is not losing experience or DZ credits when dying as a non-rogue, or at least losing much less than you do now.  I don't really care about losing gear. That's part of the fun of the game. I have a hard time finding any f*cks to give about the people crying about losing gear. That's what the DZ is. It's what it was advertised as from day one.

It sucks a little bit when you keep going after the same group of rogues and after dying several times realize you lost a level or more. It almost makes you want to avoid any kind of PVP interaction.

I would also like to see the rewards for successfully going rogue and running out your timer increased. The DZ is just way more fun when there are rogues. 

 

[ESPADAS03]

I think the only thing I would like to see adjusted is not losing experience or DZ credits when dying as a non-rogue, or at least losing much less than you do now.  I don't really care about losing gear. That's part of the fun of the game. I have a hard time finding any f*cks to give about the people crying about losing gear. That's what the DZ is. It's what it was advertised as from day one.

It sucks a little bit when you keep going after the same group of rogues and after dying several times realize you lost a level or more. It almost makes you want to avoid any kind of PVP interaction.

I would also like to see the rewards for successfully going rogue and running out your timer increased. The DZ is just way more fun when there are rogues. 

True the gear to mean nothing essentially because if I level up I can actually just buy the god gear since the gear I find in Loot form usually sucks, but yes dropping ranks due to players just rank blocking is the most demotivation factor really and avoiding them or going outside the darkzone to hope you get put on a new server with less rogues is not a valuable solution if all I lost was some gear if a rogue killed me than oh well keep that trash ill just rank up and get really good gear and take you down. essentially it promotes no easy meals for rogues as I pointed out that's really what most these rogues go for so its no challenge for them where as the non rogue has an overwhelming challenge even odds he cannot overcome do to a actualy blockage being created by other players. as far as gear I usually don't care I can always get that crap back anyways, I rarely go in for gear I go in if ever to rank up but that's hard with rogues rank blocking. 

 

[TheDarkZone]

True the gear to mean nothing essentially because if I level up I can actually just buy the god gear since the gear I find in Loot form usually sucks, but yes dropping ranks due to players just rank blocking is the most demotivation factor really and avoiding them or going outside the darkzone to hope you get put on a new server with less rogues is not a valuable solution if all I lost was some gear if a rogue killed me than oh well keep that trash ill just rank up and get really good gear and take you down. essentially it promotes no easy meals for rogues as I pointed out that's really what most these rogues go for so its no challenge for them where as the non rogue has an overwhelming challenge even odds he cannot overcome do to a actualy blockage being created by other players. as far as gear I usually don't care I can always get that crap back anyways, I rarely go in for gear I go in if ever to rank up but that's hard with rogues rank blocking. 

The idea that people are purposely "rank blocking" is just ridiculous. They are just playing the game and killing agents. They are not conspiring to keep people from leveling up.

Anyhow, I think if they just lowered the XP loss for non-rogues dying, most of the whiners would be satisfied.

 

[ShootFirstPodcast]

The idea that people are purposely "rank blocking" is just ridiculous. They are just playing the game and killing agents. They are not conspiring to keep people from leveling up.

Anyhow, I think if they just lowered the XP loss for non-rogues dying, most of the whiners would be satisfied.

I think lowering the experience-loss as a non-Rogue and increasing as a Rogue would be good.  I think they had it more accurate in the beginning, but the reason people were upset and saying that they didn't want to go Rogue because it was too much of a hit was because it was still too new.  Now... larger experience loss would still be enough to make Rogues be a little more careful, but they'd still be willing to do it.  Maybe increase their Dark Zone funds gained by surviving Rogue status or something, but hitting them really hard on experience loss for dying Rogue?  Because I would say that currently I don't feel like there's enough consequence toward Rogues to make them want to be careful.  They can die and come right back pretty easy.  Then again, I'm not entirely sure anything needs to be changed in this regard to be totally honest because I like the dynamic.

 

[MichFan]

I don't know, maybe my group and I are just un-lucky but we hardly ever come across a server that is full of Rogue's. We would much prefer that to just constant farming of the bosses and DZ Drops. On that same token I've very rarely come across a DZ server that was super empty. Those of you saying the DZ will eventually die off are sadly mistaken IMO. 

Why instead of focusing on just avoiding a LARGE portion of this games "end game" but instead focus on making your build/agent as one who can go in with a group and survive. Between the HVTs now and then DZ05/06 there is little to no reason as to why everyone shouldn't be able to get 214/240 gear score pieces. If you're struggling to get them out in a higher level extraction then once you fill your pack drop down to a lower extraction point and just keep a watchful eye with pulse for other agents. If you see them coming and don't feel comfortable then just take off. 

 

[Blazzen67]

 there is little to no reason as to why everyone shouldn't be able to get 214/240 gear score pieces.

i agree with this point..however...they really need to make "gear scores" mean something IMO. for example, i still haven't found a weapon that has a gear score of 191 to 214, that is better than my 182 black market AK that i have been using for a hell of a long time now. in the past week or 2 alone, i have gotten maybe 15 204 gear score weapons,  and none of them were better than my AK. i have even gotten some 214 and 240 gear set items that reduced my stats considerably from my lower gear score armor pieces. when i get a weapon that has a better gear score than what i currently have equipped..i would expect that weapon the be better, and more times than not, thats not the case...maybe im just one unlucky mofo

 

[ESPADAS03]

The idea that people are purposely "rank blocking" is just ridiculous. They are just playing the game and killing agents. They are not conspiring to keep people from leveling up.

Anyhow, I think if they just lowered the XP loss for non-rogues dying, most of the whiners would be satisfied.

Iv personally heard rogue agents after they killed me say while laughing... Lets keep this Scrub at a lower rank by just killing him over and over... soooooo yea I only speak from experience man I'm not assuming this stuff. I feel like I run into more Rogue Dbags than anything.  so your argument.  do agree the game is beong played to a point yes but it also freely allows for things like this to happen in my opinion you shouldn't loose XP from rogue agents just the AI because it is not your fault if your running with a team and suddenly they turn on you yes you must accept this may happen but then having thm hunt you down over and over to do this because your trying to enjoy the content is not good.

Plus if your at the top of the food chain and there are people lesser than you grinding for good gear wouldn't it be a smart tactic to keep them at a level below you to easily steal from them... just saying iv heard the answer and I know it happens maybe far but few but all it needs to be done is happen to you once before your like nope I'm done.

Here is the thing its just a video game so most people will not put up with such behavior for to long over a video game eventually people will move on to other things and that hurts population as for me I'm loving the HVT and other stuff hell I run through the Russian consulate nicely with a team now its actually fun still a challenge but if I want impossible I go play the incursions.

So far the darkzone has lost confirmed 7 people that's me and my friends now imagine how many other people just go in to do the challenges and then bounce they don't go for loot or extractions this means less extractions to steal for the Trolls but if I do carry loot its always a green item just to get some sweet victory or ill say hey I have a gear item and run into the safe area and leave so no one gets it Muahahahha maybe if they weren't fishing all the fish out the pond I would play a bit nicer lol. till than ill give them no need to truly get me since I wont have DZ keys no literally I prefer to drop them if I can. this way I'm of no real value to a rogue. 

 

[ESPADAS03]

I don't know, maybe my group and I are just un-lucky but we hardly ever come across a server that is full of Rogue's. We would much prefer that to just constant farming of the bosses and DZ Drops. On that same token I've very rarely come across a DZ server that was super empty. Those of you saying the DZ will eventually die off are sadly mistaken IMO. 

Why instead of focusing on just avoiding a LARGE portion of this games "end game" but instead focus on making your build/agent as one who can go in with a group and survive. Between the HVTs now and then DZ05/06 there is little to no reason as to why everyone shouldn't be able to get 214/240 gear score pieces. If you're struggling to get them out in a higher level extraction then once you fill your pack drop down to a lower extraction point and just keep a watchful eye with pulse for other agents. If you see them coming and don't feel comfortable then just take off. 

Here is the problem I build my agent I go into the darkzone I find all the rogues and get creamed even with a team, perhaps its the region I'm in but I have the ROguesestpull of servers and always feel like I'm the bottom of the totem poll so I just don't bother with the darkzone since I don't really find it fun. I actually prefer the HVT Co OP more than the darkzone.

 

[ESPADAS03]

Here is the problem I build my agent I go into the darkzone I find all the rogues and get creamed even with a team, perhaps its the region I'm in but I have the ROguesestpull of servers and always feel like I'm the bottom of the totem poll so I just don't bother with the darkzone since I don't really find it fun. I actually prefer the HVT Co OP more than the darkzone.

Also the whole lower extraction is exactly here most the waiting to go rogue agents are waiting around they see an extraction in the lower area they beline it to there they crush the AI so they have 2 minutes to get to you and also 40 seconds to cut the line after that so these beast Rogue teams have plenty of time to get to you and mostly people will stay out of their way iv gotten from top t bottom of the DZ in record time and that's while avoiding AI these guys crush the AI and only need 4 shots to kill me so yea lower extractions area are not the answer its just the highlighter saying hey I'm wea come kill me.

 

[TheDarkZone]

Iv personally heard rogue agents after they killed me say while laughing... Lets keep this Scrub at a lower rank by just killing him over and over... soooooo yea I only speak from experience man I'm not assuming this stuff. 

So it happened one time. That doesn't mean it is an epidemic. There is not a huge group of players actively trying to keep other players from leveling up. The population is too big. It wouldn't be possible.