How I Feel About 1.4

[quinch1199]

I think there's far too much loot now. Playing tier 4 and random rioters roaming the street are dropping gear sets and 229 items. Missions are providing 4-5 pieces of high end plus a couple of gear set each time. Seems it's gone completely the other way than what it was. 

To me the issue isn't HOW MUCH loot was dropped but how that loot related to your character and did it improve on what I had.

1.3 - the answer usually "useless" and "not at all".

Massive should patch the game to:

1) Look at gear held currently

2) RNG between "materials" drop vs. gear to be sold vs. USEFUL gear that genuinely throws stats to the player that improves their character.

...but have they just simply made it throw more Sh*t at the wall and hope some of it sticks?

Honestly, if 15-20% of the gear that dropped in 1.3 was genuinely of use I think we'd have all been happy.

 

[DeadSockPuppet]

The abundance of loot will mean we'll sell most for creds which will go to recalibrating our fav pieces.

I think this was their ultimate goal.  We've spent tons of time grinding to get gear that we like up thru and including 1.3, now we'll occasionally get something that's useful and the rest of the time we'll get stuff that we can use to tweak the gear and weapons that have acquired.  Since I play about 10 hrs. a week, this will fit my play style just fine.  

 

[RimBlock]

I think the flaw in this though is we can only tweak one attribute and with a bit of tweaking it is usually as good as you are likely to get, or is worth bothering about.

I would rather have the ability to change all stats but to have the costs much higher.  If it was a days worth of grind to have a single roll on an item it would allow people to tailor everything but to have to work heavily in order to save for it.

The heavy grind requirement would give lots more loot so maybe a better items or the ability to sell them and then re-roll your chosen single stat on a single piece of gear.  Always enabling the player to move forwards.

 

[quinch1199]

1) Look at gear held currently

2) RNG between "materials" drop vs. gear to be sold vs. USEFUL gear that genuinely throws stats to the player that improves their character.

I feel I should expand on this a little. 

We know the game in 1.3 "looked" at your current GS / Level before issuing gear from things like Caches in Underground. This way the idea being it gave you something at least pertinent to your level or that gave you a little level boost. 

How the algorithm should work starts from this point but goes further to include the mechanic used for Dark Zone match making. 

1) Player performs a task that results in a drop

2) Server calculates the chances of what type of drop based on the following factors:

 - World tier (this gives a minimum value to the GS for the algorithm to work from, a starting point)

- Average GS of character, including stash (this gives a mean value for the algorithm to work within)

- % split between drop classification (Gear/Weapon/Mod/Materials)

 - % split between type i.e. Gear/Weapon (backpack, SMG, LMG, kneepads etc), Modification (grip, scope etc), MATERIALS cache (Tools, Electronics etc)

These can be modified based on enemy/action type (level boss, normal elite, handing out food to civilians) and factored in a sliding scale of % chance +/- to each.

3) Server has now selected the TYPE and Classification of the drop. It now uses an overlayed calculation to give a % chance of an item based on Talent scores (Damage/Toughness/Electronics) to BUILD the chosen item towards the focus of the character in question. For example: Character has a high DPM then the gear drop is focused with talents that boost Damage output. This is a lower chance (15-20% of the drop chance) if that isn’t hit with the RNG then you’ll get high gear but it might encourage you to change focus by providing you with high level gear but with stats that improve (in our example) electronics.

I think, currently, and previously, the calculations are far simpler in the game meaning at least stage 3 is missed out and the system just chooses from a set “menu” for stage 3.

Note I have included materials caches as a potential drop… I want this in the game! Just a box with 5 materials for example. I give some water to a civilian … I get 5 Tools back. I’d love that! I don’t want to deconstruct YET ANOTHER blue item. I’d rather leave it on the floor.

 

[TheDarkZone]

The update seems like a move in the right direction.

My big issue right now is just the amount of content and things to do. It is still so freaking lacking.

I followed this game from when it was first announced several years ago. Hell, I originally bought the XBox One just because of this game (it was supposed to come out a few months after the XBox One's release). 

There is a big divide between the gameplay videos they put out there before release to the game we actually got. In the pre-release videos, it felt like the game would have a little more survival elements to it. Mobs would be a little more scary to engage. But most of all, they kept bragging about how they mapped out all of New York City. What do we get? A few blocks of Manhattan. That's it.

They have released one DLC, which is basically just a random dungeon generator. We were supposed to have 2 DLC's by now with a 3rd one right around the corner. 

There have been no new missions and no real continuation of the story since launch, and that story only took about 3 days to get through. The Incursions are not impressive. Basically one big area to fight wave after wave of enemies. 

Where is this massive world we were promised? Will we ever see more of New York?

And if they were going to include RPG elements, they should have gone with character classes. You should have to make choices about what your character can specialize in versus just changing a few pieces of gear and swapping out a couple of skills. Make us make tough decisions on our build. Sure, give the opportunity to re-roll for a cost if someone unlocks something they hate, but it is silly that every character has every skill and perk unlocked. The way it is right now, there really is no reason to create secondary characters other than for mules and farming missions more often.

This patch fixed some definite gameplay issues, but the game is still a long way from what we were led to believe it would be.

Don't get me wrong. I had my fun with it. I got my money's worth. But they were talking about this game having a 5+ year lifespan. There is no freaking way right now. They are barely going to make it through 1 year.

 

[DeadSockPuppet]

I would rather have the ability to change all stats but to have the costs much higher.  If it was a days worth of grind to have a single roll on an item it would allow people to tailor everything but to have to work heavily in order to save for it.

Proposal: Use the current pricing structure where the cost to recal doubles each time you recal again.  However, make the change that if you want to move to another stat, the price will still double but you'll have to pay some PC in addition to credits (Note: the proposal uses regular credits as the primary payment form).

For example, you have a chest piece that has say the simple stats: firearms bonus, CHC bonus, support station bonus.  

You start working with this piece and decide to try and swap out the support station bonus for a turret bonus, cost is 50k in credits.  The first roll you get doesn't give turret bonus, so for 100k you roll again and get the turret bonus you want.  

After that change, you decide you want to go with a higher electronics build to beef up your turret.  Because you're switching to the first stat, you're charged 100 PC in addition to 200k credits.  This roll gets you on the lower side of the scale so you recal again and are now at 400k credits.  You get a good roll so you're all set.  

Finally, after some play you get the final AB piece you need, so now you want even more ammo than the lvl 30 bonus.  You decide to change the CHC for ammo bonus, which costs you a hefty 800k credits and 200 PC.   This time you get lucky and get the bonus you want.  

In closing, this was how you paid for your upgrades:

3rd stat 1st time: 50k credits

3rd stat 2nd time: 100k credits

change to 1st stat: 100 PC

1st stat 1st time: 200k credits

1st stat 2nd time: 400k credits

change to 2nd star: 200 PC

2nd stat 1st time: 800k

In the case of this piece, you would spend 1.35m credits and 300 PC, but it's perfect for your build as it is now.  In this case, a little farming and selling of the plentiful loots you get would finance tweaking of this piece.   

 

[DeadSockPuppet]

Finally got to play some 1.4 (WS is on a travel day so no game).   Very impressed so far.  The group I ran with basically just did PvE mobs and bosses for like 3 hrs and got all sorts of fun loot to tinker with. My only gripe is that when I left UG and ran through the terminal I didn't check the stock at the special gear vendor in the terminal.  

I stopped back by at the end of the night and saw he's selling a specialized backpack and savage gloves.  I've been looking for 229 savage gloves forever and the +200% firearms and stamina added to skill points would be very helpful for my main toon and would just be sick for my alt.  Unfortunately, the combined cost is like 1200 PC and I only have 340.   Alas, with the items only being on sale for 20 more hours, I won't be able to pick either item up.  Wasn't meant to be, I guess. 

 

[RimBlock]

Proposal: Use the current pricing structure where the cost to recal doubles each time you recal again.  However, make the change that if you want to move to another stat, the price will still double but you'll have to pay some PC in addition to credits (Note: the proposal uses regular credits as the primary payment form).

For example, you have a chest piece that has say the simple stats: firearms bonus, CHC bonus, support station bonus.  

You start working with this piece and decide to try and swap out the support station bonus for a turret bonus, cost is 50k in credits.  The first roll you get doesn't give turret bonus, so for 100k you roll again and get the turret bonus you want.  

After that change, you decide you want to go with a higher electronics build to beef up your turret.  Because you're switching to the first stat, you're charged 100 PC in addition to 200k credits.  This roll gets you on the lower side of the scale so you recal again and are now at 400k credits.  You get a good roll so you're all set.  

Finally, after some play you get the final AB piece you need, so now you want even more ammo than the lvl 30 bonus.  You decide to change the CHC for ammo bonus, which costs you a hefty 800k credits and 200 PC.   This time you get lucky and get the bonus you want.  

In closing, this was how you paid for your upgrades:

3rd stat 1st time: 50k credits

3rd stat 2nd time: 100k credits

change to 1st stat: 100 PC

1st stat 1st time: 200k credits

1st stat 2nd time: 400k credits

change to 2nd star: 200 PC

2nd stat 1st time: 800k

In the case of this piece, you would spend 1.35m credits and 300 PC, but it's perfect for your build as it is now.  In this case, a little farming and selling of the plentiful loots you get would finance tweaking of this piece.   

Like the idea with a few changes.

I would suggest making the stat / bonus type switch expensive.  1,000 PXC for example.  People should have to work for it.  Incursions give 100 PXC / incursion / day.  in 3 days of doing incursions and opening crates etc players could switch to another stat on a gear item.

I am a little wary of doubling the cost.  There should be a max limit on cost or we could get in to silly numbers fast.  Maybe 1 mill per roll tops.  With 229 weapons selling for 85k approx, selling 12 weapons or so should allow another roll.  Maybe bumping it to 2 mill maybe better considering the amount of loot.

I think the trick is to provide the ability without making it too quick and easy but also without generating too much grind for a single step up.  A difficult combination for sure.

 

[Oh. daesu]

Doubling sounds a bit mean. We reroll firearms/stam/elect, talk our chances like good gamblers hoping for a win. We don't double that. But PCs to unlock slots sounds good. And that being progressively higher on gear sounds fair. More incentive to find good gear in the first place.

Oh, and if you google it. Someone suggested this to ubi way back in the first half of the year.  :13_upside_down:  

 

[quinch1199]

Well I'm not having the issues at Tier 4 I thought I would have. I did go and revamp my armament at the special weapons vendor and got the GS229 Parkhain & LVOA-C and ran some daily missions with a could of friends (mainly to help level one guy who was only 173GS).

Three missions later and he was GS233

Mix of Park (Reload speed and Crit mods) and LVOA-C (RoF and Crit heavy mods) is ripping through the missions to be honest. Drop wise I'm pretty happy as the useful drop of the day was a Tacticians Authority vest and with some jigging about of my other existing gear (I have to get rid of this nasty Banshee crap now though!) means I have a DPM of over 210k, Toughness of around the same. I need more jigging about as I want to get electronics back over 100k though. 

Positive experience so far but I still haven't ventured into the Underground!

 

[Juliet Tango]

2 hours ago, Oh. daesu said:
Otherwise you could spend time running around doing missions/incursions/hvt etc and selling all the loot, pick up a half decent new gear piece and immediately roll it into the perfect piece if you had enough credits. I think you should have to build up that particular gear piece in order to be able to do that. Just my opinion though

 

[Juliet Tango]

I don't know what happened to my post above. It just seemed to link back to oh daesu's previous post and hasn't included my post underneath. 

I think that that you should have to build up progressively to allow further slots to be unlocked on a gear piece. For example you want to roll a 2nd stat on gloves then you have to wear those gloves as is and xp gained is distributed between your pieces. The XP gained should be distributed based on how strong a particular piece is so if you had +1000 assault rifle damage and you had rolled 10% damage to elites on gloves that is pretty strong so that would probably receive more xp than maybe another piece. Once you have used a piece for so long and levelled it up with XP enough then you should have to ability to unlock extra slots and still have to use Phoenix credits and credits to re-roll stats. 

Otherwise you could run about doing missions/incursions/hvts to gain Phoenix credits and loot and just pick up a fresh gear piece you could immediately roll into the perfect piece if you had enough credits. You should have to work with that piece to be able to unlock it further. 

Thats just my opinion though

 

[RimBlock]

Quick shout out to @quinch1199: The 229 Mil L86 LSW blueprint is at the blueprint vendor.  766 PXC.  Enjoy  :1_grinning: .

 

[DeadSockPuppet]

Might have to give that a look.  My alt has a G36 backed by an M870, but a good LMG or DMR might work better when she does full on support.  

 

[RimBlock]

Have just managed to do Falcon Lost and Clear Sky on challenging with randoms.

The problem was not doing them but getting to join a group.  Both failed to find a group first time and I had to come back a while later.

Falcon lost was not particularly difficult.  We went to the central trench but two of us were out of it and all over the place most the time.  No need to hunker down in a single place.  I actually had fun with it running around.  I think I went down twice.  Someone had the gear set that collects the bombs.  That was interesting to watch :12_slight_smile: .

Clear Sky was a lot more challenging, especially with the last part having to kill the boss.  Those heavies are seriously big bullet sponges.  Went down a couple of times there as well I thin.  Def felt like it took a lot more effort to complete.

Still have to try Dragons Nest though.

 

[RimBlock]

I was running challenging underground with a M870 and it was quite fun.  The team of randoms were quite strong so after thinning out the pack, we were all competing to be the first to take out the remaining few.

Also used it in Warrengate challenging.  Again quite fun but fell back to the trusty M4 a lot of the time.

 

[DeadSockPuppet]

I was running thru the DZ with my military M870 and had a blast.  Got ganked by a group of rogues, but they were geared for trolling and we were just having fun.  

Currently this toon is running with:

229 Military G36 - deadly/brutal/focused
229 PP-19 - dominant/swift/hurried
229 Military M870 - swift/brutal/deadly
229 BM M60 E6 - unforgiving/sustained/brutal
229 First Wave X45 - expert/provident

Once I get some PC I'm going to recal the dominant on the PP-19 (because this toon is a support char) and possibly unforgiving on the M60 and provident on the X45. 

 

[RimBlock]

Nice collection there.

I rolled for Toxic on my pistol as if I am in a situation where I need to draw the pistol (forward mouse wheel assigned for me for quick access  :10_wink: ) then I want to do two things in this order;

1. Stop the bad guy shooting me (hence Toxic).
   
2. Something else like;
   • 
     
     Kill the bad guy quickly (the X45 is still very strong, rapid firing and quick to reload). 
     
   • Get in cover
     
   • Reload a more powerful weapon.
     

Thinking about it, I think I have meticulous on my M870 although I have not noticed it propping at all so maybe worth rolling that away.  Swift would be a good choice as you have on yours.

 

[DeadSockPuppet]

Swift would be a good choice as you have on yours.

It's a great choice on the M870, since it's a pump shotty that reloaded by individually feeding shells.  I find it very useful.  

 

[RimBlock]

So did I tonight  :10_wink: .