Gear Score Stat shouldn't mean as much as it does

[Rsk2mc]

This post is not about anything Dev related but more about us as players and how we perceive GS. As of right now my GS is solid at 243, and just now I am not getting kicked from groups, this is my gripe. So many of us see GS and automatically think damn 223 no good kick him, but what people should realize is a GS 155 could comprise of 5 268 random pieces with no set bonus and 229 weapons with garbage talents. Player quality is important, a veteran player who understand game mechanics and team work should always outweigh GS, sure a 200 GS may not be well equipped to run heroic, but a 220 GS should not be kicked either because they want a 230 min. GS can be an inflated impression that makes you look like you grinded but in fact not everyone really understands game mechanics, maximizing procs, skills, talents and gear stats. a 214 full striker with a 182 weapon with good talents would probably out dps someone with a mixed 268 gear set. 

With this being said I asked everyone to give people a fair shot, I got lucky and met some super helpful people, but this isnt the case for everyone. 

I do think for any GS player a minimum requirement to run a challenging or heroic should be a mic.

 

[ProphetReborn]

The problem is that people equate gear score with good gear, more dps and therefore...a good player. Given that 268 gear was only attainable through running or doing certain things so it used mean that A) you were good enough to run and complete those instances/incursions or B) you spent a lot of time farming in the DZ for it, and since that's such a rough place at times you must be elite. 

I feel like despite the fact that higher level gear is easier to get than ever, that mindset is still there. Probably will never go away for better or worse. I have seen people with a higher score than I have in an instance and wonder if they bought that character 20 minutes earlier, and I have also seen lower scores blow me away in dps. 

I could run a patchwork of gear and artificially inflate my gear score if I wanted to, but it doesn't mean anything in the end. I would rather play at a lower score and have full sets of gear and weapons with talents I can use than be a liability. 

I agree, it isn't a true measure of a player and I wish there was a better way. For now this is what we have. 

 

[Oh. daesu]

As of right now my GS is solid at 243, and just now I am not getting kicked from groups,

Seriously? that's what, 204 weapon and one 240 gear? I often have that, depending on the build. Not to mention recalibration goes a long way.

What are you queuing for? Sometimes it is just that they want a 10 minute run.

You could simply have your couple of higher gear on when you're matching and then simply switch it back when it is time to roll  :9_innocent:

 

[Rsk2mc]

I actually have all 229 weapons, I have one 240 piece on and I think one 214 the rest is 268. It's funny because my headshot crits with my svd are 3 million. I haven't gotten kicked at 243 but my striker set is 214 but I can get better toughness rating using it so when I equip it for certain runs and weapon combos I instantly get kicked with a gs of 226.

 

[DeadSockPuppet]

My main runs with a 204 tactical mk16 and a 204 LVOA-C because they have fantastic talents and they're easy to unlock.  Not to mention I'm not running any high DPS builds so 204s are fine.  

 

[supercat]

Gear Score is a confused feature that confuses users.

Gear Score indicates the grade of item.

And hence, Gear Score DOES indicate the strength of a player.

However at the same time, Gear Score CANNOT actually indicate the strength of a player.

Yet the game/dev uses Gear Score as standard for player's strength.

Gear Score, oh, Gear Score. What the f*ck?

 

[ProphetReborn]

That's exactly my point. It does reflect your characters ability and at the same time doesn't. It can be accurate and it might not be. You could equip all 268 gear, one piece of each set, get 229 weapons, have a score of 255 and have a horrid build and be almost useless. The perception and the reality are not all the same. If there was some way to know what people were running or how they were geared it might mean something. But, as of right now it's a roll of the dice. Exacerbated by the fact that with underground loot is plentiful. This isn't to say I disagree with underground and getting new and better loot quicker, not at all. It just muddies the gear score waters a little more and makes it less and less important to me as a statistic, up to a point. If you have a score of sub-200 you are just not well geared, and need work. That's a big gap, but 230-240? Or 240-250? In my opinion in that area of gear score I would rather take a good player with the lower score and a still solid build. 

 

[RimBlock]

GS is a guide to the potential quality of the players gear.  We all know a high GS can give a terrible RNG roll.

It does not give any indication of the players ability.  Dress a pig in an SAS uniform... does not mean it can storm an embassy  :10_wink: .

What it also misses it the gear sets and the bonuses they bring.  A GS 255 with complete mismatches of gear has the potential to be a lot worse than a person with the same GS but gear set items used in a reasonable manner.

Now the big issue with making that information available is that you will then get people kicked for the gear sets they are using if you make that info available (ie. team already has a Sentrys Call guy so if another joins they may get kicked in favour of a tact player).

Some sort of metric based on DPS / Toughness / Skill power may be better but with DPS being as bad as it is at the moment, it is not really viable as a solution.  

@Rsk2mc: Would be interested to know what you stack to get 3 mill per headshot critical and if that is in a team or solo.  I do 1 mill solo with an M1A and 1.5 with a high level Tact in the team (smart cover and pulse maxed).  My M1A is 44k (+5k) per shot with a firearms of 3.2k .  I have hear the same sort of numbers from others but have not been able to see how they stack up to get it so would be great if you were willing to share.

 

[quinch1199]

The only thing Gear Score really indicates is the LEVEL of an item. It does not indicate in any way the actual strengths or "power level" of an item (though generally higher items have better stats but we all know from pre-level 30 game play this isn't always correct). Gear Score is used by the game as a rough indication of the level and experience of a character and hence is linked to both access to content and so the game knows what level of gear to award a player upon completion of reward giving actions. 

that

is

it

 

[ProphetReborn]

That actually raises another interesting topic to me. How does the game calculate what gear score is needed for certain instances? I feel like they are way off on the recommended and required gear score at times. Way off on the low side. I want to say when falcon lost came out the gear score required for hard mode was 140 and the recommended was 160. I would love to see a group of that gear go in and not glitch and not have a really, really hard time doing that. I have gone in with 220+ and wiped. I know strategy and ability play a role, but that's a serious gear difference there. 

I just wish they created a realistic expectation. That's all. 

 

[quinch1199]

That actually raises another interesting topic to me. How does the game calculate what gear score is needed for certain instances? I feel like they are way off on the recommended and required gear score at times. Way off on the low side. I want to say when falcon lost came out the gear score required for hard mode was 140 and the recommended was 160. I would love to see a group of that gear go in and not glitch and not have a really, really hard time doing that. I have gone in with 220+ and wiped. I know strategy and ability play a role, but that's a serious gear difference there. 

I just wish they created a realistic expectation. That's all. 

i'm pretty sure the requirements are hardcoded by the developers after reviewing several walk throughs of the Incursions by their own teams only. They're static values so no reason for the game to generate them itself.

I'm guessing Massive have aimed at a level to try to promote inclusion (get as many players trying the Instance) but realistically players are unable to do the Instance at those levels with a view to encouraging them to play other areas of the game due to not being able to run the Instance at the required/suggested GS level. 

Its a psychological trick to make players think that its their own fault they can't run the Instance so they have to go and gear up further. Whilst I'm sure its "possible" to run the Incursions at those levels IF:

1) your a co-ordinated team used to playing together

2) all with a perfect spread of talents in the group

3) you are 100% knowledgable on the sequence of mobs within the Incursion (as the devs would be)

 

[ProphetReborn]

That seems fair. Said no one ever. If that's really the reason why they do then I believe those people are silly. For that three series of events to happen would be like us going to Mars on a manned space mission and actually bringing Matt Damon along for the ride so they could film it. I'm pretty sure it's not going to happen. 

I am so used to it I always will overcompensate now anyway, especially with new content. It's just that much harder across the board it seems. It's just a weird thing to me to not create a realistic expectation on who can do the content. You lock those out you want to include because then they just get kicked from groups when they to join or they go in with like levels and get trashed inside of 7 seconds. 

I'm not sure there is a solution, and either way for me it doesn't matter. My new marksman rifle is going to lead me to the promised land anyway. If I can land head shots, which seems to be my downfall right now. I'm still getting used to it. I've been running assault rifle and smg since launch. Hard habits to break. 

 

[quinch1199]

That seems fair. Said no one ever. If that's really the reason why they do then I believe those people are silly

Its entirely profit driven as I'm sure the movement to of players from open world > Incursion > back to open world (higher level missions > Dark Zone > back to Incursions with the new gear has all been detailed and mapped out with a view to encourage player purchase of DLC (some additional content & materials/equipment) and subscriptions (additional gameplay and opportunities to gain better gear without hitting Incursions).

Fair? I try not to use that phrase as ... it seems very fair to be honest but for many players it doesn't feel that way. I don't begrudge developers making money on games as long as it doesn't involve any direct "pay-to-win" (there is always some form of pay-to-win however even if its subtle) and/or you're not forced to pay to progress. 

Neither of these are evident in this game so I'm happy for them to use the other tricks of the trade lol!

 

[quinch1199]

For that three series of events to happen would be like us going to Mars on a manned space mission and actually bringing Matt Damon along for the ride so they could film it

They have to have a get out clause .... when challenged "Yes, it can be done" (within certain restrictive conditions)

Like weight loss exercises/drugs etc ... "can help you lose weight only as part of a calorie controlled diet"

 

[Rsk2mc]

GS is a guide to the potential quality of the players gear.  We all know a high GS can give a terrible RNG roll.

It does not give any indication of the players ability.  Dress a pig in an SAS uniform... does not mean it can storm an embassy  :10_wink: .

What it also misses it the gear sets and the bonuses they bring.  A GS 255 with complete mismatches of gear has the potential to be a lot worse than a person with the same GS but gear set items used in a reasonable manner.

Now the big issue with making that information available is that you will then get people kicked for the gear sets they are using if you make that info available (ie. team already has a Sentrys Call guy so if another joins they may get kicked in favour of a tact player).

Some sort of metric based on DPS / Toughness / Skill power may be better but with DPS being as bad as it is at the moment, it is not really viable as a solution.  

@Rsk2mc: Would be interested to know what you stack to get 3 mill per headshot critical and if that is in a team or solo.  I do 1 mill solo with an M1A and 1.5 with a high level Tact in the team (smart cover and pulse maxed).  My M1A is 44k (+5k) per shot with a firearms of 3.2k .  I have hear the same sort of numbers from others but have not been able to see how they stack up to get it so would be great if you were willing to share.

Im not sure what the right answer is, maybe they do i like WoW did in the Burning Crusade days and make you beat each tier level before going to the next. Not being able to run the T5 instance would not allow you to run T6. The game would actually lock T6 content until you got the key for the T5 instance which was linked to your toon. Maybe that is a viable option which which show if you can make it through that you can probably hold your own,

 

[Rsk2mc]

GS is a guide to the potential quality of the players gear.  We all know a high GS can give a terrible RNG roll.

It does not give any indication of the players ability.  Dress a pig in an SAS uniform... does not mean it can storm an embassy  :10_wink: .

What it also misses it the gear sets and the bonuses they bring.  A GS 255 with complete mismatches of gear has the potential to be a lot worse than a person with the same GS but gear set items used in a reasonable manner.

Now the big issue with making that information available is that you will then get people kicked for the gear sets they are using if you make that info available (ie. team already has a Sentrys Call guy so if another joins they may get kicked in favour of a tact player).

Some sort of metric based on DPS / Toughness / Skill power may be better but with DPS being as bad as it is at the moment, it is not really viable as a solution.  

@Rsk2mc: Would be interested to know what you stack to get 3 mill per headshot critical and if that is in a team or solo.  I do 1 mill solo with an M1A and 1.5 with a high level Tact in the team (smart cover and pulse maxed).  My M1A is 44k (+5k) per shot with a firearms of 3.2k .  I have hear the same sort of numbers from others but have not been able to see how they stack up to get it so would be great if you were willing to share.

Also, that is in a group setting. I have almost 200% crit damage using a 229 SVD. My head shot damage is also high, on average I would say my head shot crits are around 1.8 but in a group with all the buffs its not uncommon to see 2.7,2.8 proc. I am using the 2 piece blind as well to get the +20% pulse and (i know this sounds crazy) the alpha set to get the weapon talents buff. So my SVD is a beast. When I run a different set of gear the crits fluctuate but so far this build seems to do the best, although im a bit squishy as I sacrifice toughness. Also all my mods are crit and crit damage like my weapon mags and scope. Once I get some high level sentry gear Im sure I will see more consistent number in the high 2Ms

 

[RimBlock]

Also, that is in a group setting. I have almost 200% crit damage using a 229 SVD. My head shot damage is also high, on average I would say my head shot crits are around 1.8 but in a group with all the buffs its not uncommon to see 2.7,2.8 proc. I am using the 2 piece blind as well to get the +20% pulse and (i know this sounds crazy) the alpha set to get the weapon talents buff. So my SVD is a beast. When I run a different set of gear the crits fluctuate but so far this build seems to do the best, although im a bit squishy as I sacrifice toughness. Also all my mods are crit and crit damage like my weapon mags and scope. Once I get some high level sentry gear Im sure I will see more consistent number in the high 2Ms

Thanks.  What is your stats ?

I have not built for crit chance due to the 65% cap and the fact we usually reach that with pulse.  I am also built for stats and skill power so crit damage sometimes suffers.

I am currently running.

3.1k / 3.7k / 1.2k = 215k (M4), 176 (M1A), 211k (X-45), 444k, 30k