Enemy weak points test range and theory crafting

[Xeromaus]

you're already in the pit, it's cake from there to just fight.

I don't understand why everyone is looking for ways to glitch and ways around this run, but I hope Ubi does everything that could possibly be done to lock it into "as intended or don't come in". I had a guy with a 204 gear score ask me last night "what's the daily mean about hitting weak points??". This is why.

Edit:

Moved from:

http://www.thedivisionforums.com/topic/2751-falcon-down-incursion-walkthrough-for-low-gear-scores/

...because we're simple creatures that rolled with a tangent too long/deeply. Apologies.

 

[ThePassionateGamer]

you're already in the pit, it's cake from there to just fight.

I don't understand why everyone is looking for ways to glitch and ways around this run, but I hope Ubi does everything that could possibly be done to lock it into "as intended or don't come in". I had a guy with a 204 gear score ask me last night "what's the daily mean about hitting weak points??". This is why.

Yeah have not used one exploit so far. The only thing I do from time to time is using the shortcut if you climb over the wall in the Qeens Tunnel Mission. But that is doable just by parcouring over it nothing glitching there so I count that as a clever alternative route and not exploit. But I feel you about the guys who glitch the incursion all day long and run around in 204 gear just by exploiting. That would ruin the game for me. So far each set Item I found (2 so far) where great and made me smile while looking forward to seeing the set bonus come together "soon".

One funny/strange thing I noticed is, that the weak points seem not to be that "weak" after all. I can sometimes quicker kill an enemy by trying to land DMR headshots then by going for the weakpoint. As if the weak point had more HP then the soldier. I know that I get Headshot damage on top of my base damage for hitting the head but that should also count for the weak points or not? When you get to the point where your headshots kill an enemy faster then going for his weak point it's kinda akward. Maybe they should just add the headshot bonus damage for weakpoints too.

What do you think about this? Did you experience similar things ingame?

 

[Xeromaus]

Yeah have not used one exploit so far. The only thing I do from time to time is using the shortcut if you climb over the wall in the Qeens Tunnel Mission. But that is doable just by parcouring over it nothing glitching there so I count that as a clever alternative route and not exploit. But I feel you about the guys who glitch the incursion all day long and run around in 204 gear just by exploiting. That would ruin the game for me. So far each set Item I found (2 so far) where great and made me smile while looking forward to seeing the set bonus come together "soon".

One funny/strange thing I noticed is, that the weak points seem not to be that "weak" after all. I can sometimes quicker kill an enemy by trying to land DMR headshots then by going for the weakpoint. As if the weak point had more HP then the soldier. I know that I get Headshot damage on top of my base damage for hitting the head but that should also count for the weak points or not? When you get to the point where your headshots kill an enemy faster then going for his weak point it's kinda akward. Maybe they should just add the headshot bonus damage for weakpoints too.

What do you think about this? Did you experience similar things ingame?

weak points are either ammo boxes or grenade pouches, and as such, it isn't about damage per say, it's about RNG saying one of your rounds hit perfectly and cooked off the ammo or grenades. More about how many bullets you sink in than the damage they do.

 

[ThePassionateGamer]

weak points are either ammo boxes or grenade pouches, and as such, it isn't about damage per say, it's about RNG saying one of your rounds hit perfectly and cooked off the ammo or grenades. More about how many bullets you sink in than the damage they do.

Do you have a reliable source that is is a pure chance factor for every single bullet that hits?

I ask because my expirience so far has been that I almost always need the exact same number of hits with my DMR for a heavy gunners ammo pouch for example to make it go boom. Sometimes I need less but that is when other agents in my team are already shooting at it. At least that is my impression of how it works because every time I am sure to fire on the enemy's weak point alone I need the same number of hits.

That changed with my damage though. The more damage my DMR does the less hits I seem to need. A while ago I had to hit it 5-6 times to cook it off. Currently I can cook of an ammo pouch with 3 hits on a lvl 32 heavy gunner in a challenge diff. mission. And that every time I shoot the weak point alone.

Proof me wrong here but I think each weak point has a fixed number of HP depending on the enemy level and not a set chance for every bullet that hits it.

 

[Xeromaus]

Do you have a reliable source that is is a pure chance factor for every single bullet that hits?

I ask because my expirience so far has been that I almost always need the exact same number of hits with my DMR for a heavy gunners ammo pouch for example to make it go boom. Sometimes I need less but that is when other agents in my team are already shooting at it. At least that is my impression of how it works because every time I am sure to fire on the enemy's weak point alone I need the same number of hits.

That changed with my damage though. The more damage my DMR does the less hits I seem to need. A while ago I had to hit it 5-6 times to cook it off. Currently I can cook of an ammo pouch with 3 hits on a lvl 32 heavy gunner in a challenge diff. mission. And that every time I shoot the weak point alone.

Proof me wrong here but I think each weak point has a fixed number of HP depending on the enemy level and not a set chance for every bullet that hits it.

It's been my experience with auto fire that each was somewhat unique. Running lexington for speed, the final fight would be my "proving grounds" so to speak. I almost always catch the tanks before they hit halfway to the lower entrance, and it's taken a few shots to a full clip of my BMAK to cook them off. There is no range interior to that room that my rifle isn't optimized for, and my damage has been largely unchanged in the past 20 runs or so. Previous to those 20, I was carrying 250k+ dps, and I now carry 188k...same rifle, same mag, and no appreciable difference for me in shots to cook.

You may be correct however, and I may as well...in fact, we both may be. There could be a progressive RNG per bullet at work that you don't see over 3-6 shots, but it may also end with a hard damage ceiling. Without a stationary target, It's tough to test. I'll dig around and ask some miners I know to do the same, I really wanna know this one.

 

[ThePassionateGamer]

It's been my experience with auto fire that each was somewhat unique. Running lexington for speed, the final fight would be my "proving grounds" so to speak. I almost always catch the tanks before they hit halfway to the lower entrance, and it's taken a few shots to a full clip of my BMAK to cook them off. There is no range interior to that room that my rifle isn't optimized for, and my damage has been largely unchanged in the past 20 runs or so. Previous to those 20, I was carrying 250k+ dps, and I now carry 188k...same rifle, same mag, and no appreciable difference for me in shots to cook.

You may be correct however, and I may as well...in fact, we both may be. There could be a progressive RNG per bullet at work that you don't see over 3-6 shots, but it may also end with a hard damage ceiling. Without a stationary target, It's tough to test. I'll dig around and ask some miners I know to do the same, I really wanna know this one.

The problem with your BMAK is that it has a way higher rate of fire then my MA1 so you will have a really hard time to count every bullet that really was a hit.

One time you may have shot 2-3 bullets and all may have hit other times you may have shot a 5 shot salvoe with only 2 hits on the weak point. As long as you can't really count every single bullet you shoot out of that AR it may be very difficult to tell how many hits you need with it and if they vary each time or not.

Don't get me wrong here I am not saying you can't aim or something. But you must admit that it is very hard to tell if each single bullet shot with a full auto weapon was a hit or not. Especially on a small and moving target.

Try it out with a DMR where you can count your hits with ease then you will see where I was going with my claim that those weak points rather have a fixed ammount of HP then a chance for each bullet. Because I bet that you will need a constant ammount of hits with a DMR like I do. As long as only you shoot at the weak point that is. I aim shoot, see the yellow X for a weak point hit and repeat that two times before the ammo box is cooked off. And that is a stable number for me since my latest damage upgrade. That is why I feel so sure with my statement.

Edit: To test my theory with the damage you could take a high gear score DMR for the first test and a lower gear score one with less damage for a 2nd test. If I am right you should need more bullets with the lower damage DMR. If you would need the same then you may be right that each hit has a certain percentage to it that fills up to 100% before it cooks of the weak point. In my case that would be around 33 - 34 %. Because I always need 3 hits. But that would not solve the problem that I needed more hits with a lower damage rifle of the same kind.

 

[Xeromaus]

The problem with your BMAK is that it has a way higher rate of fire then my MA1 so you will have a really hard time to count every bullet that really was a hit.

Again, I can't totally disagree, but seeing only 5-6 yellow ticks before a cook looks nothing like watching a parade of them. I can't count each bullet, or aim perfectly, but I can watch and hear those ticks. For the record, up to 100 feet, my BMAK barely waivers off a headshot hitbox at all on auto.

On a side note, If we're going to be thorough here...whats your firearms stat at, and what's your M1A's base damage, crit chance, and crit damage %? If your 3 hits to cook is a constant, what happens when the first 1-2 crit? With a boost from Pulse, Tac link, and/or Smart cover, have you ever cooked off in one shot? . Are your results (and by proxy all results with a particular class) weapon type specific, with higher precision weps needing less hits to cook?

 

[ThePassionateGamer]

Again, I can't totally disagree, but seeing only 5-6 yellow ticks before a cook looks nothing like watching a parade of them. I can't count each bullet, or aim perfectly, but I can watch and hear those ticks. For the record, up to 100 feet, my BMAK barely waivers off a headshot hitbox at all on auto.

On a side note, If we're going to be thorough here...whats your firearms stat at, and what's your M1A's base damage, crit chance, and crit damage %? If your 3 hits to cook is a constant, what happens when the first 1-2 crit? With a boost from Pulse, Tac link, and/or Smart cover, have you ever cooked off in one shot? . Are your results (and by proxy all results with a particular class) weapon type specific, with higher precision weps needing less hits to cook?

I can't answer that from where I am right now, so this one will take untill tomorrow to write down all those values. I have not watched out for the damage numbers to be honest when I shoot at weak points. I dunno if it even shows them when you get this yellow X for a weak point hit. Maybe I record a lexington run with fraps and analyse the video afterwards to check if I had any criticals in there or not.

Have not consciously used pulse and or smart cover during my shots to be honest so I can't say if that would reduce the number of hits I need to two or one. Have to test that too.

Maybe you could return the favor and try out the not very accurate way with two different DMR's in the meantime. I will post again as soon, as I have the results.

Oh and by the way we are kinda hijacking this thread for a while now. Shouldn't we open a new one and ask an admin to move our posts there? :blush:

 

[ThePassionateGamer]

Hello guys,

some of you may already read xeromaus and my little discussion about the enemy's weak points like the grenade backpack of a Rioter grenadier, the flamer tank of a Cleaner or the ammo box at the back of a Rikers heavy gunner. These weak points greatly help to kill those enemies or spread some chaos when you blow up a flamer tank.

But there is little info out there how that system exactly works. That is why xeromaus and myself started a little discussion about how they work and why we both have different impressions of the game mechanic behind those weak points. We will continue to post here from now on and I will ask an admin to move our posts relating to this topic here.

The testing will take us some time and we will keep you updated in here.

Untill then have a nice day and fun in The Division. :wink:

 

[quinch1199]

Link to original discussion?

 

[ThePassionateGamer]

Link to original discussion?

I already asked an admin to move our posts via PM but until then, here is the link:



Falcon Down Incursion Walkthrough for Low Gear Scores!

 

[Xeromaus]

The testing will take us some time and we will keep you updated in here.

Untill then have a nice day and fun in The Division. :wink:

My data-miner buddy found nothing conclusive, and I've been a bit busy with other things in game for true testing. The moment I know anything though, I'll throw it in here.

 

[ThePassionateGamer]

My data-miner buddy found nothing conclusive, and I've been a bit busy with other things in game for true testing. The moment I know anything though, I'll throw it in here.

Likewise...I did not have the time yet to test my claims. But the recent server lag I see almost every day does not make it easier to test things. I sometimes see stuff happen on screen seconds later then they should. Hope they get that fixed soon.