Dark Zone suggestion

[BoogerFat]

I have been trying to grind level 75 and 250k+ credits in Dark Zone thus far. And the one thing that haults my personal agenda is rogues that one shot and don't take no significant damage from myself of my squad mates. I wish there was a toggle where you could go anti-pvp like maybe GTA5 online has. Is that too care bear or realistic?

 

[Oh. daesu]

I think it would break what it is meant to be. Which is more of a grey pvp area

Take the supply drops. It is simply not a race to the drop. We have a time frame to go pvp, gun down the agents claiming the drop, so as to claim it ourselves.

If peeps could opt out of pvp, to exist in the DZ as purely pve..  then the supply drops don't serve their purpose.

Having different areas with different rewards does suit people's different preferences such as pve or pvp structured or world romp. DZ isn't meant to cater for pure pve, to do so breaks this grey pvp idea. 

 

[BoogerFat]

touché on the Supply crates..didn't think that one through.

 

[Xeromaus]

I have been trying to grind level 75 and 250k+ credits in Dark Zone thus far. And the one thing that haults my personal agenda is rogues that one shot and don't take no significant damage from myself of my squad mates. I wish there was a toggle where you could go anti-pvp like maybe GTA5 online has. Is that too care bear or realistic?

@Oh. daesu nailed it, but to use GTA as the example, GTA has PvP over the entire map. The Division has PvP only in the DZ. That's the "toggle"... going into the PvP area. Nothing in game "forces" you to ever go into the DZ.

 

[g1nt3r]

Now I agree the dz should stay the way it is, however a simple solution for supply drops and "toggling pvp" would be you must have pvp toggled on to be able to collect supply drops, otherwise you aren't allowed to pick them up. Regardless though, they're not going to change the DZ.

 

[RimBlock]

@Oh. daesu nailed it, but to use GTA as the example, GTA has PvP over the entire map. The Division has PvP only in the DZ. That's the "toggle"... going into the PvP area. Nothing in game "forces" you to ever go into the DZ.

Unless you want the DZ credits or DZ blueprints or Division Tech to build some of the weapons.  Sure you can play the game without any of them but then you could play the game with only a pistol, technically.

The Dark Zone also allows you to run solo and get better loot.  The good loot in PvE is in the missions and they need to be run on challenging which most are not able to do solo.  In the DZ you can back out of a bad encounter with a boss a lot further than the confined play area of the PvE missions.

A PvE only Dark Zone I think would get boring fast.

Personally, I would like to see the 'Kill this bad guy' missions pop up from time to time in the PvE area with decent loot.  Alternative BPs comparable to the DZ ones would also be good.  If both of those happened then the PvE would be more comparable to the DZ and people who do not enjoy the PvP would not feel forced in to the DZ in order to get the better loot / BP / crafting resources some of the better gear requires.  Of course, the DZ would then have to stand on its own with players who like PvP and are there enough of those to keep it viable globally ?.

I went solo in to the DZ last night and was fairly unhindered.  I only saw a couple of other players and a team of rogues (on the other end of the map) so could just PvE farm.  Trying to hold the DZ1 extraction point by the gas station on my own against 3 AI groups from different directions at the same time was interesting but survivable.  I am loving my new GS 183 MP7.

 

[Xeromaus]

Unless you want the DZ credits or DZ blueprints or Division Tech to build some of the weapons.  Sure you can play the game without any of them but then you could play the game with only a pistol, technically.

The Dark Zone also allows you to run solo and get better loot.  The good loot in PvE is in the missions and they need to be run on challenging which most are not able to do solo.  In the DZ you can back out of a bad encounter with a boss a lot further than the confined play area of the PvE missions.

A PvE only Dark Zone I think would get boring fast.

Personally, I would like to see the 'Kill this bad guy' missions pop up from time to time in the PvE area with decent loot.  Alternative BPs comparable to the DZ ones would also be good.  If both of those happened then the PvE would be more comparable to the DZ and people who do not enjoy the PvP would not feel forced in to the DZ in order to get the better loot / BP / crafting resources some of the better gear requires.  Of course, the DZ would then have to stand on its own with players who like PvP and are there enough of those to keep it viable globally ?.

I went solo in to the DZ last night and was fairly unhindered.  I only saw a couple of other players and a team of rogues (on the other end of the map) so could just PvE farm.  Trying to hold the DZ1 extraction point by the gas station on my own against 3 AI groups from different directions at the same time was interesting but survivable.  I am loving my new GS 183 MP7.

You need to be DZ lvl 75/90 before running the DZ has any value at all...and even then, the blueprints/purchases top out at 204 (save for the Nomad set, but it's garbage). You're right though, it IS like playing with only a pistol...... you'll be under powered, under geared, and anyone that doesn't adhere to only that will destroy you.

If you can't handle running vanilla challenge mode runs with the random matchmaking system, I would ask why. The enemies are no harder than in the DZ, your loot can't be stolen, the drops are higher quality (182/191 guaranteed versus 163), and you get a group to run with you.

DZ loot/purchases of ANY variety will always be at least a step down from the power and quality you can get from PvE. Seems a shame to spend all that time and effort to be stuck in second place forever. You certainly CAN solo your way to the top end of the DZ, but if solo is all you do, those that group for bigger challenges will still wreck you.

You can say "the DZ is worth running because it's fun", and you'd be correct. To say it has any definite value beyond that is a joke. It needs improvements, and it's getting them soon, but it'll always take a back seat to PvE.

 

[Oh. daesu]

I found the DZ quite good when I first got to cap. Though, this was at the time of the last patch release, where yellow was meant to become more common. When you have very little gs, easy gs163 gear is quick. It is hard to say what's good at times in this game, and there at some gs points you seem to grind more than others try to get to the next mission mode or incursion. Even reading the forums I can see there is an element of luck with drops with some people going for long runs of  diddly-squat. @Xeromaus, you know a hell of a lot more about how it works than myself. so not trying to tell grandma how to suck eggs. Mainly commenting on my recent experience at the low gs spectrum. Having run with @RimBlock, I think he is more conscience of being carried in challenges.  I can be like, I can feel as if each time I fall down shows I'm being carried.  But we have to get a gs up somehow. Actually @RimBlock, I noticed you got your gs into the 170s now.

 

[quinch1199]

I wonder if the issues with the DZ are because there seems lots to be missing still from the game. We have a high level PvP zone but we DON'T have a high level PvE zone yet...we have an Incursion only that that's wholly insufficient.

What you're left with are high level players with no where to go to PvE, and others who are just bored for similar reasons. I'm hoping the paid patch will help solve this. I still have hopes it will add a full high level PvE area PLUS an embedded Incursion (Instance/dungeon) that isn't Dark Zone. 

 

[BoogerFat]

I wonder if the issues with the DZ are because there seems lots to be missing still from the game. We have a high level PvP zone but we DON'T have a high level PvE zone yet...we have an Incursion only that that's wholly insufficient.

What you're left with are high level players with no where to go to PvE, and others who are just bored for similar reasons. I'm hoping the paid patch will help solve this. I still have hopes it will add a full high level PvE area PLUS an embedded Incursion (Instance/dungeon) that isn't Dark Zone. 

This is where I am at... the challenge modes minus Falcon Lost are starting to get redundant.....Only thing I seem to be enjoying at the moment in the DZ grind, however seeing the shittiest yellows constantly has me like whoa.... The next patch hopefully will solve all of this.

 

[Xeromaus]

I found the DZ quite good when I first got to cap. Though, this was at the time of the last patch release, where yellow was meant to become more common. When you have very little gs, easy gs163 gear is quick. It is hard to say what's good at times in this game, and there at some gs points you seem to grind more than others try to get to the next mission mode or incursion. Even reading the forums I can see there is an element of luck with drops with some people going for long runs of  diddly-squat. @Xeromaus, you know a hell of a lot more about how it works than myself. so not trying to tell grandma how to suck eggs. Mainly commenting on my recent experience at the low gs spectrum. Having run with @RimBlock, I think he is more conscience of being carried in challenges.  I can be like, I can feel as if each time I fall down shows I'm being carried.  But we have to get a gs up somehow. Actually @RimBlock, I noticed you got your gs into the 170s now.

You make a vaild point that I overlooked; there is certainly value in the DZ for those that still need 131-182 gear. It's easy for me to miss that, as brackets didn't exist when I was passing those marks, and running into the DZ to get them meant being assaulted by maxed out players almost constantly at checkpoints. It was many orders of magnitude easier to run PvE for that gear, and faster as well, as named elites didn't drop an HE piece on death, save for VERY rarely. I'll attempt to remember the changes in the future.

You're not teaching grandma to suck eggs, you're making a very valid point to someone that forgot it. Thank you.

 

[Codename Quincy]

i see 2 fundamental problems with dz.

the rogue system;  your character, a federal agent, murders another federal agent, and 2 minutes later, you're back on the job, no questions asked. 

friendly fire;  ppl accidentally going rogue, check.  ppl intentionally running in front of other ppl to make them go rogue and take the bigger risk, check.  manhunts turning into an absolute cluster fck because of accidental rogue status, check.

some say they will never change the dz, and maybe they won't.  maybe they will figure out why so many ppl have quit their game before the first dlc and make some fundamental changes. 

 

[Xeromaus]

i see 2 fundamental problems with dz.

the rogue system;  your character, a federal agent, murders another federal agent, and 2 minutes later, you're back on the job, no questions asked. 

friendly fire;  ppl accidentally going rogue, check.  ppl intentionally running in front of other ppl to make them go rogue and take the bigger risk, check.  manhunts turning into an absolute cluster fck because of accidental rogue status, check.

some say they will never change the dz, and maybe they won't.  maybe they will figure out why so many ppl have quit their game before the first dlc and make some fundamental changes. 

Your character is an agent with a license to do ANYTHING, only being held in check by his/her superiors, and the DZ has no outside communications. No one would know what you did in the DZ.

If you aren't willing to go rogue, don't enter the DZ. That would fix a LOT of peoples issues.

 

[Codename Quincy]

Your character is an agent with a license to do ANYTHING, only being held in check by his/her superiors, and the DZ has no outside communications. No one would know what you did in the DZ.

If you aren't willing to go rogue, don't enter the DZ. That would fix a LOT of peoples issues.

no, you aren't licensed to do anything.  that doesn't make sense in any capacity, and if it somehow does, just listen to isac.  'warning, you have disavowed the division and have been marked as rogue'.  but, all will be forgiven in 2 minutes.

 

[Xeromaus]

no, you aren't licensed to do anything.  that doesn't make sense in any capacity, and if it somehow does, just listen to isac.  'warning, you have disavowed the division and have been marked as rogue'.  but, all will be forgiven in 2 minutes.

watch the intro movie again...it's specifically stated.

Edit: here ya go, skip to 1:50 if you want:

"...We have no rules, we have no limits..."

 

[Codename Quincy]

watch the intro movie again...it's specifically stated.

'we have no rules, we have no limits, our job, is to protect what remains'   how is murdering other federal agents conducive to protecting what remains?  it's not.  giving an agent free range doesn't authorize murder any more than it authorizes rape.  directive 51 was designed to ensure continuity of the federal government, and murdering federal agents is the opposite of that.  why would you be marked as rogue if it was perfectly ok to murder your coworkers?  do you honestly think the head of directive 51 would hear about one of his/her agents murdering other agents and just shrug?

 

[Xeromaus]

'we have no rules, we have no limits, our job, is to protect what remains'   how is murdering other federal agents conducive to protecting what remains?  it's not.  giving an agent free range doesn't authorize murder any more than it authorizes rape.  directive 51 was designed to ensure continuity of the federal government, and murdering federal agents is the opposite of that.  why would you be marked as rogue if it was perfectly ok to murder your coworkers?  do you honestly think the head of directive 51 would hear about one of his/her agents murdering other agents and just shrug?

Protecting what remains doesn't include division agents...they're expendable assets that would be disavowed if discovered at all, specifically due to the description quoted... so yeah, shrugs all around. Their job is only to keep whats happening from spreading or getting worse in this case, as there's no government left to protect...even the U.N. is vacant. Their "job" and "what they can get away with" aren't the same thing, or even related.

If you REALLY wanna get deep on this, yeah, it sadly does mean rape and murder are on the table..as well as anything touted as a war crime, a crime against nature, a crime against decency, etc. It'd be akin to putting 007 on trial for destroying millions/billions of dollars worth of public property...won't happen.

No one hears anything from the dark zone outside of the dark zone...ISAC is only along with you due to being embedded in your SHD tech (and even "he" isn't capable of transmitting out, nor does he have the capacity to make a judgement call and tell others what you did..."he's" a tool to assist you), and it's that SHD tech that denotes who is rogue. You're marked as rogue within the confines of the DZ, and only there, no one else would ever know.

 

[Codename Quincy]

Protecting what remains doesn't include division agents...they're expendable assets that would be disavowed if discovered at all, specifically due to the description quoted... so yeah, shrugs all around. Their job is only to keep whats happening from spreading or getting worse in this case, as there's no government left to protect...even the U.N. is vacant. Their "job" and "what they can get away with" aren't the same thing, or even related.

If you REALLY wanna get deep on this, yeah, it sadly does mean rape and murder are on the table..as well as anything touted as a war crime, a crime against nature, a crime against decency, etc. It'd be akin to putting 007 on trial for destroying millions/billions of dollars worth of public property...won't happen.

No one hears anything from the dark zone outside of the dark zone...ISAC is only along with you due to being embedded in your SHD tech (and even "he" isn't capable of transmitting out, nor does he have the capacity to make a judgement call and tell others what you did..."he's" a tool to assist you), and it's that SHD tech that denotes who is rogue. You're marked as rogue within the confines of the DZ, and only there, no one else would ever know.

killing agents trying to accomplish the same mission would be counter-productive.  disavowed if discovered?! are you serious?  the entire jtf (firefighters, cops, volunteers, etc) know about them and their authority/mission.  007 was flagged as rogue in one of those movies.  his agency didn't just forget about what he was accused of. 

yeah, isac only has local coverage in the dz.  fact.  do you think that the honest agents would just forget about traitors?  not bother sharing intel when they leave the dz?

 

[Xeromaus]

killing agents trying to accomplish the same mission would be counter-productive.  disavowed if discovered?! are you serious?  the entire jtf (firefighters, cops, volunteers, etc) know about them and their authority/mission.  007 was flagged as rogue in one of those movies.  his agency didn't just forget about what he was accused of. 

yeah, isac only has local coverage in the dz.  fact.  do you think that the honest agents would just forget about traitors?  not bother sharing intel when they leave the dz?

Counter-productive: there is no mission in the DZ, so there's no productive or counter-productive. They abandoned that area. You're told numerous times that you go in at your own risk while the zone is being introduced to you. There would be no investigation launched to determine the validity of the charges against you, just your word versus your accuser, at best ending in terminating both of you to be safe. Read the data from an agents SHD tech to see who's lying? That agent knows what he did, that room is going to be on fire long before they get his watch.

Disavowed: absolutely. They're a "secret" agency for a reason... to keep them expendable. They can be used to accomplish a goal, then thrown away when done or they screw up.

JTF: They may as well say Superman saved them for all the good it would do. They'd be saying their entire task force (decent sized army) had failed in battles against an equally equipped army where 1-4 agents succeeded. It'll be denied at the highest level, the JTF would receive the credit/praise for accomplishing the mission, and those making noise about them publicly would be quietly dealt with or defamed as a nut job... this wouldn't be the first time that policy was followed.

007 was never put on trial, punished (in any way that fit), made to make amends, or suffered lasting repercussions. He's also a "secret" agent, those things can't happen to him.

Honest agents would HAVE to forget. It's akin to pointing out a narc in prison; you wouldn't want to be inside when others found out what you had done, and you wouldn't last long if you were. As to sharing intel, no, they don't. Again, that area is abandoned, there's no mission, and no one would purposefully make themselves an even higher value target if they ever wished to go back in.

 

[Codename Quincy]

so you think they just call 'time-out' when they go into the dz?

Counter-productive: there is no mission in the DZ, so there's no productive or counter-productive. They abandoned that area. You're told numerous times that you go in at your own risk while the zone is being introduced to you. There would be no investigation launched to determine the validity of the charges against you, just your word versus your accuser, at best ending in terminating both of you to be safe. Read the data from an agents SHD tech to see who's lying? That agent knows what he did, that room is going to be on fire long before they get his watch.

Disavowed: absolutely. They're a "secret" agency for a reason... to keep them expendable. They can be used to accomplish a goal, then thrown away when done or they screw up.

JTF: They may as well say Superman saved them for all the good it would do. They'd be saying their entire task force (decent sized army) had failed in battles against an equally equipped army where 1-4 agents succeeded. It'll be denied at the highest level, the JTF would receive the credit/praise for accomplishing the mission, and those making noise about them publicly would be quietly dealt with or defamed as a nut job... this wouldn't be the first time that policy was followed.

007 was never put on trial, punished (in any way that fit), made to make amends, or suffered lasting repercussions. He's also a "secret" agent, those things can't happen to him.

Honest agents would HAVE to forget. It's akin to pointing out a narc in prison; you wouldn't want to be inside when others found out what you had done, and you wouldn't last long if you were. As to sharing intel, no, they don't. Again, that area is abandoned, there's no mission, and no one would purposefully make themselves an even higher value target if they ever wished to go back in.

wow dude.  srs?  no mission in the dz?  every week isac sends you into the dz to kill 10 cleaners or something.  every day you get a dz assignment.  faye lau, the acting commander of the division wants you to check out supply drops in the dz. 

no, agents like these wouldn't be disavowed.  they would have no authority.  division agent shows up and tells captain benitez he's in charge, capt benitez says, 'no, i called the president, he doesn't know who the fck you are.  gtfo, and take your glowing watch with you.'   dude, the phone recordings.  benitez explains to the jtf who the division agents are.  and someone had to brief benitez, obviously.  they aren't secret agents.  they carry id cards.  they wear patches on their friggin shoulders. 

007 proved his own innocence. 

comparing federal agents to inmates is a long stretch.  comparing them to cops looking the other way when a dirty cop pinches some evidence in the form of money would be one thing, but they wouldn't look the other way if the dirty cop murdered another cop.