Population Balance

[TheDarkZone]

I think lowering the experience-loss as a non-Rogue and increasing as a Rogue would be good.  I think they had it more accurate in the beginning, but the reason people were upset and saying that they didn't want to go Rogue because it was too much of a hit was because it was still too new.  Now... larger experience loss would still be enough to make Rogues be a little more careful, but they'd still be willing to do it.  Maybe increase their Dark Zone funds gained by surviving Rogue status or something, but hitting them really hard on experience loss for dying Rogue?  Because I would say that currently I don't feel like there's enough consequence toward Rogues to make them want to be careful.  They can die and come right back pretty easy.  Then again, I'm not entirely sure anything needs to be changed in this regard to be totally honest because I like the dynamic.

No i don't want that at all.

I'm fine with there being a penalty for going rogue, but when the game first launched the penalty was too great and almost nobody was going rogue after the first 2-3 days. That sucked. The Dark Zone is a lot more fun with rogues. 

Besides, it is supposed to be a PVP area. I want more rogues, not less of them.

 

[RaneMokeev]

i agree with this point..however...they really need to make "gear scores" mean something IMO. for example, i still haven't found a weapon that has a gear score of 191 to 214, that is better than my 182 black market AK that i have been using for a hell of a long time now. in the past week or 2 alone, i have gotten maybe 15 204 gear score weapons,  and none of them were better than my AK. i have even gotten some 214 and 240 gear set items that reduced my stats considerably from my lower gear score armor pieces. when i get a weapon that has a better gear score than what i currently have equipped..i would expect that weapon the be better, and more times than not, thats not the case...maybe im just one unlucky mofo

Same here.  I made a note of my build last night, then replaced everything with gear set items...aaand watched as my DPS, toughness, and skills dropped significantly.  In the end, I went back to my 182 M1A and the Caduceus that dropped back when I was still completing missions. Then again, it's not that unusual for a game like this.  It's all a balancing act and some of the fun is finding what works together beautifully.

 

[ESGN]

I get what you guys are saying, i really do, but you dont have to be super geared out to be rogue or kill most rogues. I hunt and go rogue a ton. Why? Because farming bosses gets old and i want a different challenge. Alot of fighting pvp is knowing when to push, when to retreat and how to use your surroundings. Like darkzone said, a server with no rogues is boring imo. Just the same, if im in the only group on the server going rogue its boring.

Just for reference, my GS is 207-211 depending on what my group needs. im usually 170-190 dps, 340k-390k toughness all with capped or close to capped armor. and 10k-12k skill power.

I refuse to run the 201+ solo. Not because i cant do it, but because i get tired of the constant trips to the safe house/checkpoints for meds/ammo and really only being able to solo up to dz3. Not to mention PvE only entertains me so much these days.

 

[TheDarkZone]

Here is the thing about pretty much all of these discussions about the Dark Zone on all of the forums. The people that want to complain about it, want it both ways. They want "fair" fights, and they want rogues to be punished more.

You can't have it both ways. If I'm going to get punished for going rogue and not surviving, I am generally not going to risk going rogue unless I know I have the advantage. That is why you see rogues ganging up on people and taking them out when the odds are in their favor.

Although there are rewards for successfully surviving rogue, if they fail, they have much more to lose. So why would they run around looking for fair fights or fights with the odds against them?

Lower the punishments, and we might see more rogues, but we also might see rogues more willing to risk it on more even terms.

 

[RaneMokeev]

Here is the thing about pretty much all of these discussions about the Dark Zone on all of the forums. The people that want to complain about it, want it both ways. They want "fair" fights, and they want rogues to be punished more.

You can't have it both ways. If I'm going to get punished for going rogue and not surviving, I am generally not going to risk going rogue unless I know I have the advantage. That is why you see rogues ganging up on people and taking them out when the odds are in their favor.

Although there are rewards for successfully surviving rogue, if they fail, they have much more to lose. So why would they run around looking for fair fights or fights with the odds against them?

Lower the punishments, and we might see more rogues, but we also might see rogues more willing to risk it on more even terms.

You don't have to go rogue.  If you've got a solid group running with you, and can farm NPCs without much of an issue, what are the benefits of going rogue?  If another group is messing with you, sure, I get it.  But are the solo players really worth that little bit of xp?  The #1 thing I hear from rogues is that what they're doing is the whole point of the game...but it's not deathmatch.  There are plenty of other strategies.

I'm sure it's no coincidence the game is called "The Division," since you have some players who like working together, and others who'd rather be the villain.

 

[ESGN]

You don't have to go rogue.  If you've got a solid group running with you, and can farm NPCs without much of an issue, what are the benefits of going rogue?  If another group is messing with you, sure, I get it.  But are the solo players really worth that little bit of xp?  The #1 thing I hear from rogues is that what they're doing is the whole point of the game...but it's not deathmatch.  There are plenty of other strategies.

I'm sure it's no coincidence the game is called "The Division," since you have some players who like working together, and others who'd rather be the villain.

I dont go rogue for xp, credits or keys. I go rogue because players are more unpredictible then npc's and offer a better challenge. I go rogue whether im solo or in a group. But, if the punishments were as extreme as before id likely not go rogue or venture into the dz period as my main enjoyment of the dz is fighting other players.

 

[TheDarkZone]

You don't have to go rogue.  If you've got a solid group running with you, and can farm NPCs without much of an issue, what are the benefits of going rogue?  If another group is messing with you, sure, I get it.  But are the solo players really worth that little bit of xp?  The #1 thing I hear from rogues is that what they're doing is the whole point of the game...but it's not deathmatch.  There are plenty of other strategies.

I'm sure it's no coincidence the game is called "The Division," since you have some players who like working together, and others who'd rather be the villain.

It's not about farming. Going rogue is fun. Killing rogues is fun. 

And now especially with plenty of options outside of the DZ, if you don't like PVP, then why go into the DZ just to complain about it?

 

[RaneMokeev]

It's not about farming. Going rogue is fun. Killing rogues is fun. 

And now especially with plenty of options outside of the DZ, if you don't like PVP, then why go into the DZ just to complain about it?

I really try not to complain unless I'm getting involved in a discussion on here.  Usually I'm just running the DZ on my own, collecting DT and sealed caches that I haven't found on the outside yet, and racking up some XP to get my hands on the good blueprints.  Just hit level 69 the other night, so soon I'll be able to FINALLY get some level 75 prints. The options outside of the DZ are a step in the right direction, I think, but we're not quite there yet.  

But yes, you and ESGN are right.  Going rogue isn't about farming.  It's about the fun of killing other players, especially the easy targets. 

 

[supercat]

PvP is all good. My team has been involved in fights to grab the Supply Drop. That's competition. That's what I would call as PvP. 

But when you go to lower DZ, killing people who are out of your league, spending time beating enemies who are trying to get themselves up, just because you want to fill your own stomach, then that's not competition. That's self-centered and pestering.  

Some of them are even worse. They would kill and collect weaker players' loots for whatever they need it to be. Meanwhile, they could have just grab all the enemy's drops and leave if they didn't want to help. That way everybody wins, right? Why the need to sabotage others unless you're a greedy, self-centered person?

Now place yourself in the position of the so-called 'victims'. We are the players who are trying to get better gear or materials to craft, either way, we are trying to step up in our game. And we are being blocked from doing so, while at the same time, being told to get good. We never harm you in any way. You actually get benefit from our fights with enemies. You Rogues don't like heavy penalties from your act of pestilence. Yet you're giving other players who never do anything to you a huge penalty for doing something on their own. Now just place yourself in the helpless victim's shoes.

Remember, I and, I believe, everyone else are never against PvP.  But we do have a problem getting pestered by someone or group of people who are way stronger than us in an area where they're no longer belong due to their strength, whether for their own giggles or too lazy to fight on-par NPC.

 

[ESPADAS03]

So it happened one time. That doesn't mean it is an epidemic. There is not a huge group of players actively trying to keep other players from leveling up. The population is too big. It wouldn't be possible.

IT has happened more than once not just to me bt several of my friends, the thing is it really only needs to happen to one person once and they can choose to not bother with the darkzone. To me the darkzone is not really fun since I get the most crap gear and that's from high level NPC supply crates I fought Hard for and caches all I get is crap gear. The only way to get nice things in the darkzone is to buy it and this means I have to be a level 99 and well I'm stuck in the 50 range because once I start to get up in rank here comes the random rogues who I try to avoid but nope they see me and chase me down and then shoot at me to prevent my escape from the darkzone so I essentially get killed and lose some XP so I re enter from another place but it has to be in the lower area since I cant go to the higher level 34 area since ill be owned. essentially I got tired of the darkzone it felt more like a place where I'm there for cannon fodder for other players so I aint playing that game. I stick to outside the darkzone and word for a same cause environment.  right now I'm enjoying the PVE stuff its fun I get better gear outside the darkzone and its plenty of power to handle the missions.  so in that retrospect the darkzone is dead to me sinc eim not into unblanaced battles if I want to play PVP ill play halo 5 for just open world shooting AI I play the division

 

[ESGN]

I really try not to complain unless I'm getting involved in a discussion on here.  Usually I'm just running the DZ on my own, collecting DT and sealed caches that I haven't found on the outside yet, and racking up some XP to get my hands on the good blueprints.  Just hit level 69 the other night, so soon I'll be able to FINALLY get some level 75 prints. The options outside of the DZ are a step in the right direction, I think, but we're not quite there yet.  

But yes, you and ESGN are right.  Going rogue isn't about farming.  It's about the fun of killing other players, especially the easy targets. 

What makes you think i target easy people? I maybe in the minority, but i do prefer a more balanced fight. If i find i drop you fast, i typically leave you alone unless you decide to hunt/shoot me or cry about it on mic/chat.  Hell, i dont like shooting people in the back. Im not saying i dont ever do that, but more times then any ill fire a few shots to go rogue and give you a fighting chance.

On a side note, im enjoying hijacking extractions. FYI, to fellow rogues. If you go manhunt and cut a rope. The manhunt timer resets to 5 mins.

 

[ESGN]

IT has happened more than once not just to me bt several of my friends, the thing is it really only needs to happen to one person once and they can choose to not bother with the darkzone. To me the darkzone is not really fun since I get the most crap gear and that's from high level NPC supply crates I fought Hard for and caches all I get is crap gear. The only way to get nice things in the darkzone is to buy it and this means I have to be a level 99 and well I'm stuck in the 50 range because once I start to get up in rank here comes the random rogues who I try to avoid but nope they see me and chase me down and then shoot at me to prevent my escape from the darkzone so I essentially get killed and lose some XP so I re enter from another place but it has to be in the lower area since I cant go to the higher level 34 area since ill be owned. essentially I got tired of the darkzone it felt more like a place where I'm there for cannon fodder for other players so I aint playing that game. I stick to outside the darkzone and word for a same cause environment.  right now I'm enjoying the PVE stuff its fun I get better gear outside the darkzone and its plenty of power to handle the missions.  so in that retrospect the darkzone is dead to me sinc eim not into unblanaced battles if I want to play PVP ill play halo 5 for just open world shooting AI I play the division

Easiest way to lvl to 99 is by going rogue. If you dont do it then its a very long journey to the 90's

 

[ESGN]

PvP is all good. My team has been involved in fights to grab the Supply Drop. That's competition. That's what I would call as PvP. 

But when you go to lower DZ, killing people who are out of your league, spending time beating enemies who are trying to get themselves up, just because you want to fill your own stomach, then that's not competition. That's self-centered and pestering.  

Some of them are even worse. They would kill and collect weaker players' loots for whatever they need it to be. Meanwhile, they could have just grab all the enemy's drops and leave if they didn't want to help. That way everybody wins, right? Why the need to sabotage others unless you're a greedy, self-centered person?

Now place yourself in the position of the so-called 'victims'. We are the players who are trying to get better gear or materials to craft, either way, we are trying to step up in our game. And we are being blocked from doing so, while at the same time, being told to get good. We never harm you in any way. You actually get benefit from our fights with enemies. You Rogues don't like heavy penalties from your act of pestilence. Yet you're giving other players who never do anything to you a huge penalty for doing something on their own. Now just place yourself in the helpless victim's shoes.

Remember, I and, I believe, everyone else are never against PvP.  But we do have a problem getting pestered by someone or group of people who are way stronger than us in an area where they're no longer belong due to their strength, whether for their own giggles or too lazy to fight on-par NPC.

What makes you think those situations only happen to people that are non rogues?

 

[TheDarkZone]

IT has happened more than once not just to me bt several of my friends

Yeah, I'm calling BS on this. You and your friends have not run into multiple groups of players who have stated they are actively trying to keep other players from leveling up. I do not believe one word of it. 

With millions of copies sold, it would be an impossible task. 

 

[ESPADAS03]

Yeah, I'm calling BS on this. You and your friends have not run into multiple groups of players who have stated they are actively trying to keep other players from leveling up. I do not believe one word of it. 

With millions of copies sold, it would be an impossible task. 

GFO ahead and call BS not sure how that has any effect on what has happened honestly it could have been the same group of people, not surw why yur getting your panties in a bunch over this its not really a concern that matters to you since you haven't experienced it. As for me I getting better gear outside the darkzone so I'm happy so far with the game since I have no need or purpose to enter the darkzone other than to feed the  Trolls and wont be doing that retarded act.

I have one friend who goes in the darkzpne because he is determined to get to level 99 than he sends me messages going shit ran into all the rogues.

It could be a server thing because iv noticed people who have not really in a Rogue infested server which I wish I could get lucky with and be in a server with no rogues either way I'm not going to add to the darkzone kill count for the rogues anymore these incursion missions are plenty enough ontop with th daily missions and HVT intel missions ill have my hands full outside the darkzone and let the one who want the PVP unbalance exeriance for themselves hell if I want PVP I go play halo fair starts and its just skill at that point.   

 

[Little Warfy]

not a fan of the DZ myself, most of the time, I went on with my brother for his first time last night and it was a bit of a rush.

My main issue with rogues is that I always seem to come across 4 or more at a time, and unless I'm travelling with 6-8 other I have no chance to defend.

I was thinking it could be an option where Rogues can only kill other Rogues, make the rewards bigger for going rogue.

the only issue with this is that it makes the DZ irrelevant for anyone who doesn't go rogue, it would then become another PvP area and we have plenty of those.

so in the end, I recognise what the DZ is for, its an element of the game that will attract some players and not others, just as a lot of guys in the DZ probably don't like PvE.

I just wish Ubisoft could limit the amount of rogues that can band together so we could defend a little easier.

 

[ESPADAS03]

Yea I get a little rush in the DZ but I just stay outside I am content with the outside the DZ world because I have no sense of going Rogue literally I just cant be that guy who kills other players for the fun of it if they are just minding their own business. than again in real life I'm also not a Dbag to people so I believe part of who my moral standing is in real life has a reason to why I don't go rogue.

 

[TheDarkZone]

Yea I get a little rush in the DZ but I just stay outside I am content with the outside the DZ world because I have no sense of going Rogue literally I just cant be that guy who kills other players for the fun of it if they are just minding their own business. than again in real life I'm also not a Dbag to people so I believe part of who my moral standing is in real life has a reason to why I don't go rogue.

Oh jesus christ get over yourself.

Killing other players in a freaking PVP arena doesn't make someone a douchebag or have anything to do with their morals.

It's a freaking game. 

 

[TheDarkZone]

I was thinking it could be an option where Rogues can only kill other Rogues, make the rewards bigger for going rogue.

I'm not sure how that could possibly work. If rogues can only kill and attack other rogues, then how does someone go rogue in the first place? 

 

[ESPADAS03]

wow you seem a bit hostile over a topic that's justabout what did you say just a game. just calm down no need to get worked up over anything.