Patch 1.4 Weapons Talk

[Oh. daesu]

Watching SkillUp and heard these details.

Shotguns

Shotguns aren't being nerfed. They seemed to be relying on changes with gear talents and changes with how damage bonuses are being calculated. Indirect nerf, effectively.

Pistals

P45 heavily is being nerfed. Understandable. Hand guns will be more of a choice.

Smgs.

Varying nerf here and there 20-30%. The rationale was the npcs damage has been nerfed so the close automatics can be nerfed as well to balance with other weapon choices. Except the Burst MP 5 which gets a 11% buff.

Smgs power will be their lack of dependency on stability and accuracy due to short range. Other weapon choices will find stability and accuracy more of a challenge.

Lmgs.

• Rpk 7.6% buff.
  
• L86 8.4% buff.
  
• M60 29% buff.
  
• M249 24% buff.
  

Though it was suggested they might need to be toned down. Otherwise it would be the op'ed like the gs36 was.

Marksmen.

• M1A nerfed. 35.5%
  
• SRS buffed. 20%
  
• Scar-h buffed. 28.5%
  

The M1A should be more closer to other marksmen rifles. Speculation on whether the differences on the handling o the riffles, more of a personal preference. Though, it sounds they are trying to make most of the guns a personal preference than it has been.

 

[Oh. daesu]

 

[DeadSockPuppet]

I hope they leave shotguns pretty much as they are, with the exception of having a steeper dropoff curve for DMG.  In real life, if I shoot you with a shotty within like 5-10 meters, 1-2 shots will kill you.  If you get outside that the scatter pattern will make it easier to survive.  

No matter how you slice it with the pistols, a 45 is going to cause more DMG than a 9mm.  However, if they nerf the 45s, they could buff the magnum and make the revolver a serviceable option.  The only real benefit of a 9mm is mag size. 

Sounfs like more of the same with SMGs.  The way things are going with past and these current nerfs it sounds like the devs don't want people to use any of the SMGs.  Although everyone will now use the burst MP5... right.  

 

[Oh. daesu]

Pre 1.3 the shotties were too underpowered. Hatw it to go back to that even with the stagger bonus.

Yes, you're right about the revolver and the pistol. It doesn't sound like the burst mp5 will be op'ed.

Looking forward to trying the lmgs  :1_grinning:

 

[supercat]

Sounfs like more of the same with SMGs.  The way things are going with past and these current nerfs it sounds like the devs don't want people to use any of the SMGs.  Although everyone will now use the burst MP5... right.  

That's what I think too when trying to listen to what they say.

It ends up into the same "we want you to do this, not that" circus all over again.

There's no cure to "I'll use the best available". That's human instinct and even after they cut SMG stats to total 0, players will move on to the next best option. Especially in a stat-based game like this.

 

[quinch1199]

There's no cure to "I'll use the best available". That's human instinct and even after they cut SMG stats to total 0, players will move on to the next best option. Especially in a stat-based game like this.

This!

I really wish devs would understand this. Its not just Massive that fall for this trap though. ..not by a long shot

 

[Oh. daesu]

Yeah that's always going to be true. Then you have a cycle of nerfs and buffs which means everyone must switch to the new "meta".  Some will like new changes but most will hate and resent  having to scrap what they have and redo. Just be comes another grind cycle.

What they are conceding is that they have allow these gaps to become excessive. Their goal is to narrow the gap. Ideally, i the gap isn't huge then playing styles become more relevant. When the gap is too big then you're not "in the game" regardless of what you try.

 

[DeadSockPuppet]

I really wish devs would understand this. Its not just Massive that fall for this trap though. ..not by a long shot

I completely agree with this.  MarcoStyle was on the most recent episode of DZR's Armory and they asked him his favorite gun and he kinda laughed.  He said that he doesn't care what the gun looks or sounds like, he's just looking for the one that does the most damage (he did end up answering he's using a L86).  

Personally, I like the look and sound of a gun and something that's fun to use and causes respectable damage.  I played with a lightweight M4 forever because of that.   Then I found the LVOA-C and finally the tactical MK15.  I liked the "cosmetics" of these weapons and rbeg gradually became more powerful.

In a similar fashion, I like the MP5 ST over other SMGs like the Vector and AUG and I like the M60 because it feels and looks like a beast (as an LMG should) and the M870 because I grew up shooting a semi-auto Remmington 1187 (looks kinda like 870).

 

[quinch1199]

I completely agree with this.  MarcoStyle was on the most recent episode of DZR's Armory and they asked him his favorite gun and he kinda laughed.  He said that he doesn't care what the gun looks or sounds like, he's just looking for the one that does the most damage (he did end up answering he's using a L86).  

The way you counter this "non-issue" is to build in environments and encounters that force players into particular positions where certain weaponry/builds are effective rather than attempting to "balance" everything. 

So SMG's do the most damage ... within 15m ... what happens when you have lots of open ground to cover and Ai that stand off and use LMG's & Snipers? There are environments in the game like this but not enough and they're not punishing enough. 

The difficulty level of some areas needs to be set firmly on the "punish idiots" setting! Likewise, match makers should be set to encourage diverse builds in teams. 

In WoW LFG channels you always hear chat "LFG Healer/Tank/Palitank/Mage" etc. Why? Because you CANT complete Instances without a BALANCED TEAM. Currently this game is built around allowing any mix to complete a dungeon/Incursion/mission. 

Pre-level 30 that's ok, I understand it and accept it. Pre-lvl 30 is like an extended tutorial. 

Once you start hitting 116+ GS however you need to start thinking about making teams that balance and this is one of the reasons I would consider semi-locking talents/path locking characters.

This game would have better balance if players had Paladins/Mages/Fighters/Rogue like builds that are LOCKED behind a Phoenix credit barrier. Choose your "path" and you can respec but only for a cost. THEN make matchmaker systems that insist on all slots being filled for certain dungeons/incursions/missions. 

THEN all weapons and builds will get used. 

Until that point you will always have a Top Rated Meta where all the ... professional ... players gravitate to the best universal build. 

 

[DeadSockPuppet]

The way you counter this "non-issue" is to build in environments and encounters that force players into particular positions where certain weaponry/builds are effective rather than attempting to "balance" everything. 

This was exactly how GR:FS was.  Yeah you could pick whatever weapons you wanted for the story and MP and you could customize the crap out of them, but depending upon what the battlefield looked like, certain weapon classes were just more effective than others.  I'm hoping this carries over to Wildlands.  Also, in the MP mode, you really needed a mix of forward fighters and support players to effectively win matches, that's not the case with The Division in the DZ.

In WoW LFG channels you always hear chat "LFG Healer/Tank/Palitank/Mage" etc. Why? Because you CANT complete Instances without a BALANCED TEAM. Currently this game is built around allowing any mix to complete a dungeon/Incursion/mission. 

This goes back to pencil and paper RPGs - who was ever really able to take on a complex dungeon in D&D with a bunch of Rogues, or a small tribe of barbarians (tried this and it was entertaining as f*ck)?  Destiny does an OK to good job of requiring different classes to be mixed up for raids, depending upon which raid you run.  Some of the story missions and things like nightfalls aren't as diverse, due to the burns and such, but the game still does a better job of requiring diversity than The Division.  

This game would have better balance if players had Paladins/Mages/Fighters/Rogue like builds that are LOCKED behind a Phoenix credit barrier. Choose your "path" and you can respec but only for a cost.

I agree with this and disagree with it at the same time.  Yes, it would require players to build a character and play a designated role in the game, which would "force" some diversity in builds and gameplay.  However, I don't think it would go with the spirit of the game, which is that Division agents are the "best of the best" and are trained for any and all roles and are supposed to be different than traditional spec ops that tend to have roles (support, sniper, demo, etc.).  

All of that being considered, I'd probably welcome anything that mixes things up.  I used to love that in GR:FS I could still level MP characters and be useful in a support role, especially since I'm not the best in an assault or stealth role.  

 

[quinch1199]

However, I don't think it would go with the spirit of the game, which is that Division agents are the "best of the best" and are trained for any and all roles and are supposed to be different than traditional spec ops that tend to have roles (support, sniper, demo, etc.).  

True but sometimes you have to allow changes for game play reasons of course. Besides if you think you may have four core classes to build with and you have four character slots available … this isn’t any different from other MMORPG’s.

Perhaps the problems we’re facing is that they’ve tried to make this too different from established MMORPG’s where as the reason the established games have this system is that other methods are ultimately unsatisfactory as a solution.

 

[DeadSockPuppet]

I don't disagree with your logic @quinch1199, I just don't think they're ready or willing to drop the style of game they've created.  If they were, they would have broken off the DZ and PvP like every other game and stopped balancing between PvE and PvP. 

 

[quinch1199]

I don't disagree with your logic @quinch1199, I just don't think they're ready or willing to drop the style of game they've created.  If they were, they would have broken off the DZ and PvP like every other game and stopped balancing between PvE and PvP. 

I know, but one can dream! lol

It would solve so many problems.... *sigh*