Nerfs is killing this game

[Maximus]

So many good weapons have been nerf that I don't know what's a good weapon anymore.  I don't think the devs at massive gets it.    The devs at massive make all LMG's and AR's terrible, which then forces users to use SMG's.   Now instead of fixing the real issue(LMG's/AR's), they gets it wrong again and then nerf top SMG's.   

They have also nerf several gear pieces like sentry call and striker.   But again, if other gear pieces worked like they should, ex. Nomad, then users would be inclined to use other builds.   They are going to nerf this game until every gear piece is garbage and every gun is weak.   That's what's it's getting to.  And the game is going to be a total bullet sponge for both pve and pvp.    Which is stupid.  

A gun fight shouldn't turn into a 12 round boxing match.  It's either I die or the other person die.  Not going back and forth for an hour.   I was in the DZ and was one on one with a player back and forth until it was clear he wasn't going to down me and I wasn't going to down him so I just ran off.   What's the point.   The person with the last med wins now?  Or the one who runs out of ammo losses?  This is so dumb and very poor decision making by massive.   Going forward, it appears there will be "no good gear".  And if something do fall through the cracks it will get nerf like the G36.    It's getting to the point where I don't understand the point of this game if you are going to nerf every good or decent gear.   The G36 wasnt OP.  It was good, but not OP.   It was no need to nerf.  What a shame.   This game had so much potential.  

 

[quinch1199]

1) PvP isn't about DPS ... never has been ... the "best" DZ players aren't DPS monsters and their builds are based around other skills. I know plenty who hardly kill using their weapons just skills! 

2) Massive are running a difficult, and self-imposed, task of attempting to balance things for both PvE and PvP. Sure they can test PvE quite extensively but PvP can only really be balanced after being live. I don't believe they're getting the balance right or that they're rebalancing in the correct manner either however so sort of agree with you on that point.

Not sure if the G36 for example IS over powered but I've got to admit I've not been really struggling that much when running Underground or other PvE missions since I got mine...perhaps it is as OP as they claim. Thing is that it really isn't for PvP, but they've not yet worked out how you can rebalance one environment but not the other... this is the crux of the issue 

 

[Big Grumper]

There's a really interesting video on YouTube by an Aussie fella called SkillsUp. He very eloquently argues that curtains abilitilies are killing the game and that the guns suffer because of it. 

 

[quinch1199]

There's a really interesting video on YouTube by an Aussie fella called SkillsUp. He very eloquently argues that curtains abilitilies are killing the game and that the guns suffer because of it. 

I'll have a look, its likely very true to be honest. I strongly feel that Massive need to scrub how they're handling the PvP at the moment and make it almost a separate "game" where once you go through the doors all skills etc are capped equally with all other players of the same level in the zone. 

 

[Skillzthatkillz]

Before update 1.3 and the underground add on I stopped playing this game completely. As mentioned it stopped being fun when PvP consisted of rolling around and healing with the entire server in one place unable to kill one another.

Now I'm going to stop playing again because the second there is a good weapon that you make a build with it gets nerfed and you need to start over..

Make all guns as good as the g36 was!!!! Not as bad as the new aug is....

PS. My dps was 305 toughness 540 And skills were 28

Now after the update its 240, 499, and 24... Why keep playing? So I can work for something and lose it?

 

[ESGN]

Before update 1.3 and the underground add on I stopped playing this game completely. As mentioned it stopped being fun when PvP consisted of rolling around and healing with the entire server in one place unable to kill one another.

Now I'm going to stop playing again because the second there is a good weapon that you make a build with it gets nerfed and you need to start over..

Make all guns as good as the g36 was!!!! Not as bad as the new aug is....

PS. My dps was 305 toughness 540 And skills were 28

Now after the update its 240, 499, and 24... Why keep playing? So I can work for something and lose it?

did you swap gear or are you running alpha bridge gloves?  g36 dmg nerf shouldn't have effected any other stat but dps.

 

[Maximus]

The game was fun, includubg DZ until level 30.   Remember how the DZ was bracket your first 30 levels?  Once they grouped everyone in the same bracket after 30 that killed the DZ IMO.   Guys level 60 or 70 was in the DZ with level 30s.   Then they tried to rectify their idiotic mistake by coming up with a gear score to bracket the DZ again.  Which isn't working either because as everyone knows, gear scores are broken.  

And now it's a bullet sponge.  I wish I could YouTube the 45 minute plus 4v4 DZ fight I just had with my crew.   U know how many ppl died of the 8?

Yup, u guessed it, ZERO!!!!

It ended in a truce and one team running off and the other in the other direction.   

 

[DeadSockPuppet]

I'll have a look, its likely very true to be honest. I strongly feel that Massive need to scrub how they're handling the PvP at the moment and make it almost a separate "game" where once you go through the doors all skills etc are capped equally with all other players of the same level in the zone. 

I completely agree with this, it should be normalized like the Crucible in Destiny.  They could have a zone or instance where it remains like it is now (i.e. Iron Banner), but the main portion should put players on an even field.  I have to think this would help with a lot of the issues they have with balancing weapons and gear for both PvE and PvP.

 

[DeadSockPuppet]

Make all guns as good as the g36 was!!!! Not as bad as the new aug is....

Your nerfed stats really suck, but what you suggest won't work.  Read through the post below to see why:

http://www.thedivisionforums.com/topic/3907-weapon-and-gear-balancing/

 

[quinch1199]

I completely agree with this, it should be normalized like the Crucible in Destiny.  They could have a zone or instance where it remains like it is now (i.e. Iron Banner), but the main portion should put players on an even field.  I have to think this would help with a lot of the issues they have with balancing weapons and gear for both PvE and PvP.

Exactly, that's the sort of thing. I don't mean taking away skills or giving everyone the same guns or anything etc but having a level based cap on DPS, Toughness & Electronics as well as a cap on Damage Mitigation etc. 

It'll still mean people have access to different skills and can build a certain way for a certain effect, but would mean no one can completely annialate anyone else...also means hackers, cheats etc can be picked up AUTOMATICALLY by the in-game engine.

On a side note, my G36 was hit exactly as I predicted and I lost only 10k over all DPS, which I made up by adding additional mods and swapping gear over. For PvE this wasn't an issue at all. I imagine the only real impact was with PvP.

 

[Big Grumper]

Exactly, that's the sort of thing. I don't mean taking away skills or giving everyone the same guns or anything etc but having a level based cap on DPS, Toughness & Electronics as well as a cap on Damage Mitigation etc. 

It'll still mean people have access to different skills and can build a certain way for a certain effect, but would mean no one can completely annialate anyone else...also means hackers, cheats etc can be picked up AUTOMATICALLY by the in-game engine.

On a side note, my G36 was hit exactly as I predicted and I lost only 10k over all DPS, which I made up by adding additional mods and swapping gear over. For PvE this wasn't an issue at all. I imagine the only real impact was with PvP.

I've been unable to regain the lost DPS with my loadout. The only way would be to sacrifice some Toughness or Skills or get new gear, and given that I'm still playign with my loadout (trying to optimise it) this is probably the best option for me.

 

[quinch1199]

I've been unable to regain the lost DPS with my loadout. The only way would be to sacrifice some Toughness or Skills or get new gear, and given that I'm still playign with my loadout (trying to optimise it) this is probably the best option for me.

Might be how my build is (trying) to be focused. I'm always trying to hit that 25k+ skill zone so I get the best skill refresh as I run as a mobile healing station .. lol! Toughness is about 250k (Gear Score currently is 217) but DPS suffers of course so its only really been between the 150-180k depending on gear set parts. I've recalibrated quite a bit though still.

 

[Big Grumper]

Might be how my build is (trying) to be focused. I'm always trying to hit that 25k+ skill zone so I get the best skill refresh as I run as a mobile healing station .. lol! Toughness is about 250k (Gear Score currently is 217) but DPS suffers of course so its only really been between the 150-180k depending on gear set parts. I've recalibrated quite a bit though still.

Interesting. I'm running at about 420k Toughness and 180k DPS (was 215k) and 14k Skills. For a small while (pre-G36 nerf) I had  the output stats I was after, albeit with a Frankenstein build that didn't give me the perks/abilities that I wanted. 

 

[quinch1199]

Interesting. I'm running at about 420k Toughness and 180k DPS (was 215k) and 14k Skills. For a small while (pre-G36 nerf) I had  the output stats I was after, albeit with a Frankenstein build that didn't give me the perks/abilities that I wanted. 

Ahhh... well... that's the other sacrifice. That sort of thing doesn't matter "as much" to me as I generally only run with a team in PvE at higher levels, barely venture into the DZ and never conduct PvP. My main build is purely focused as a unit support build. Its becoming more and more essential when you start adding more and more directives to Underground missions now. 

Almost at level 20, Underground! More directives to unlock. 

 

[DeadSockPuppet]

Ahhh... well... that's the other sacrifice. That sort of thing doesn't matter "as much" to me as I generally only run with a team in PvE at higher levels, barely venture into the DZ and never conduct PvP. My main build is purely focused as a unit support build. Its becoming more and more essential when you start adding more and more directives to Underground missions now. 

Almost at level 20, Underground! More directives to unlock. 

Psssh, us poor PS4 sods don't have to worry about Underground teams for like 3 more weeks.   Psssh!

 

[quinch1199]

Psssh, us poor PS4 sods don't have to worry about Underground teams for like 3 more weeks.   Psssh!

Bet you've still got better gear than I have ... lol!

Same gear keeps dropping for me! Not getting the right RNG, its not that I'm getting bad gear but there's just so many 240GS gloves you can make use of! The two items of gear I still need at 240 just wont drop. 

 

[DeadSockPuppet]

Possibly, my main has 2x 268, but I think they're both LS, although one might be AB.

 

[ESGN]

The game was fun, includubg DZ until level 30.   Remember how the DZ was bracket your first 30 levels?  Once they grouped everyone in the same bracket after 30 that killed the DZ IMO.   Guys level 60 or 70 was in the DZ with level 30s.   Then they tried to rectify their idiotic mistake by coming up with a gear score to bracket the DZ again.  Which isn't working either because as everyone knows, gear scores are broken.  

And now it's a bullet sponge.  I wish I could YouTube the 45 minute plus 4v4 DZ fight I just had with my crew.   U know how many ppl died of the 8?

Yup, u guessed it, ZERO!!!!

It ended in a truce and one team running off and the other in the other direction.   

Things must be way different on PS4.  Ive never had a pvp battle last that long and I'm rogue 95% of the time I'm in the DZ.  Don't get me wrong, ive had some long battles, but they've typically been 5 mins at the most.  Now if its two tankticians going at it and both running 2 piece final measure then I'm sure it could, but that's a 1v1 battle I'm describing.

I'm not sure I'm understanding what youre saying about how the DZ used to be bracketed.  From what I remember, it was based on your Game lvl, not the DZ lvl.  Once you hit lvl 30 in game and started being able to equip much better gear, you got thrown to the wolves so to speak.  But that wouldn't be the games fault, that would be the players fault for not venturing or rarely venturing into the DZ before reaching end game.

 

[quinch1199]

I'm not sure I'm understanding what youre saying about how the DZ used to be bracketed.

As far as I'm aware the DZ is "match made" using your Gear Score, based on the highest gear score items you have ... even if they're in your Stash and not being used. The brackets after 201GS I'm not sure how large they are .. for example is it 201-215; 216-230 etc etc ... either way from what I've seen I don't think the system is really working that well to be honest, especially if you get players who aren't equipping best gear as the lower GS equipment they have is, in theory, much better for certain stats.

Remember the DZ you enter is a purpose created "instance" and not a complete free for all. I haven't worked out maximum population at a certain GS bracket before the server creates another DZ instance yet and I know the DZ match maker often has a complete fail and match makes players several brackets over others and other glitches like that.

 

[ESGN]

As far as I'm aware the DZ is "match made" using your Gear Score, based on the highest gear score items you have ... even if they're in your Stash and not being used. The brackets after 201GS I'm not sure how large they are .. for example is it 201-215; 216-230 etc etc ... either way from what I've seen I don't think the system is really working that well to be honest, especially if you get players who aren't equipping best gear as the lower GS equipment they have is, in theory, much better for certain stats.

Remember the DZ you enter is a purpose created "instance" and not a complete free for all. I haven't worked out maximum population at a certain GS bracket before the server creates another DZ instance yet and I know the DZ match maker often has a complete fail and match makes players several brackets over others and other glitches like that.

I was talking about how Maximus said the DZ used to be bracketed. I read it as DZ level, which it wasn't.  It was In-game Level. I agree with you on the GS bracketing.  It doesn't seem to work well.