DZ solution? Can't we all just live in peace? (shoot to kill)

[SupportBk]

You can not be shot by rogue if you carry between 0-3 items. Because doing an extraction every 3 items is a drag. You have to wait for almost 2 minutes. Which will make people take the risk and carry between 4-9 loot. The grinders can grind and the rogue and players with 4-9 items go crazy on each other.

It also gives the low armor/rank an opportunity to rank up and get gear.

 

[quinch1199]

How would that balance with a man hunt? Assuming a Rogue is "live" and you give chase but have 0-3 items in your pack...that will mean he can't defend himself wouldn't it?

I'm not a big fan of forcing behaviour artificially with set game mechanics to be honest, I think mainly the whole Rogue vs. Agent thing doesn't work currently due to other, deeper, issues with the game itself which I hope will get better with content releases.

 

[SupportBk]

How would that balance with a man hunt? Assuming a Rogue is "live" and you give chase but have 0-3 items in your pack...that will mean he can't defend himself wouldn't it?

Option 1 would be: when you engage the rogue, you no longer have the protection. Which resets when the rogues you hit are dead. With the rogue now carrying loot, you also get something for chasing the rogue. It also prevents the rogue running out the checkpoint after being killed and joining his friends, he will need 4 loot first.

Option 2, you can not go rogue under 4 items. After that you also take the risk of going accidental rogue yourself.

I do not like setting rules either. but the game currently lacks balance. While in a group of 4 shooting 1 grinder in the back is not PVP. Its abusing the horrible balance, letting you level up faster by going rogue and then shield hack yourself underground the library in DZ4. PVP is going 1 on 1 or against similar number, heads on. Usually by setting terms and bragging rights.

 

[HHHope]

Not sure how many time I've seen posts like this. Why people are trying to implement fairness and balance to the DZ is beyond me. There isn't supposed to be any balance or fairnes or anything of the sort. Don't roll by yourself, go somewhere else. People need to stop trying to make the DZ into something it's not intended to be. 

You wou of hated to run into us last night. No regards for what level they were or what they were doing. There was 4 of us too. 

 

[quinch1199]

Not sure how many time I've seen posts like this. Why people are trying to implement fairness and balance to the DZ is beyond me. There isn't supposed to be any balance or fairnes or anything of the sort. Don't roll by yourself, go somewhere else. People need to stop trying to make the DZ into something it's not intended to be. 

You wou of hated to run into us last night. No regards for what level they were or what they were doing. There was 4 of us too. 

I do agree with you but I think we'll keep getting this side of the argument as plenty of players want a more PvE game but find they HAVE to enter a PvP arena in order to collect gear that will allow them to continue the PvE content (namely Incursions). Currently the game up to level 30 its pretty much a wholly PvE experience and that's attractive to lots of players but then EVERYONE has to enter PvP which doesn't sit well with plenty.

Personally I accept it...whilst I haven't had loads of PvP experience with core "shooter" games and certainly none with the deep sense of tension you get with this game (which is great!)...I certainly enjoy the level of fear you get when in the DZ alone. I can see how it would be frustrating for many however. 

I look ahead to patches and content releases to come to ease that gap a little but I still feel the highest content should be only obtainable via the DZ and the high level incursions. Players who wish a fully PvE game should though at least be given the ability to maintain a gear score that gives them a fighting chance in Incursions perhaps, even if its not to the level as you can get by visiting the DZ. 

 

[Xeromaus]

I do agree with you but I think we'll keep getting this side of the argument as plenty of players want a more PvE game but find they HAVE to enter a PvP arena in order to collect gear that will allow them to continue the PvE content (namely Incursions). Currently the game up to level 30 its pretty much a wholly PvE experience and that's attractive to lots of players but then EVERYONE has to enter PvP which doesn't sit well with plenty.

As a player that leveled up solo without gearing through the DZ at all, I can say this is not true. PvE runs do just as good a job of getting you gear, now more so than ever.

I can see this view for gearing up to 163, but not past it. With the amount of players running hard modes with high gear scores, matchmaking for those runs would absolutely do the same job, and easily.

 

[quinch1199]

As a player that leveled up solo without gearing through the DZ at all, I can say this is not true. PvE runs do just as good a job of getting you gear, now more so than ever.

I can see this view for gearing up to 163, but not past it. With the amount of players running hard modes with high gear scores, matchmaking for those runs would absolutely do the same job, and easily.

I was the same 98% solo until after hitting level 30 but still managed to get gear of reasonable score on my own. You know I abhor how the game is feeding players better gear because the game is getting difficult and I'd have it that PvE wouldn't be as beneficial to be honest but ... as you said ... if you put the effort in and know your stuff you can do it fine. I just feel a lot of players don't see it that way so want to make the PvP easier still.  

 

[Xeromaus]

I was the same 98% solo until after hitting level 30 but still managed to get gear of reasonable score on my own. You know I abhor how the game is feeding players better gear because the game is getting difficult and I'd have it that PvE wouldn't be as beneficial to be honest but ... as you said ... if you put the effort in and know your stuff you can do it fine. I just feel a lot of players don't see it that way so want to make the PvP easier still.  

I think that'll be accomplished when the 201+ players ship out to greener pastures and better loot

 

[supercat]

To me, either add heavier consequence of being a Rogue or add DZ loot at level 30 PvE map.

Right now, it has better benefit for being a Rogue

 

[RimBlock]

Not sure how many time I've seen posts like this. Why people are trying to implement fairness and balance to the DZ is beyond me. There isn't supposed to be any balance or fairnes or anything of the sort. Don't roll by yourself, go somewhere else. People need to stop trying to make the DZ into something it's not intended to be. 

You wou of hated to run into us last night. No regards for what level they were or what they were doing. There was 4 of us too. 

I think many people believe the DZ is intended to be an enjoyable experience, which is not the same as it needing to be an easy experience (sure you get some people who want to be spoon fed though).  People being hammered down by teams of rogue agents they have no hope of defeating is not most peoples idea of fun.

I personally do not believe the DZ was intended to be a place where untouchable player gangs were meant to run around smashing through all in their path.   I don't see any fun or challenge in just bulling players who have no hope in fighting back, especially just mowing them down in the back before they have a chance to react.  No skill, no challenge, just sucker punching everyone they come across.  Clearly other people and teams revel in that kind of one sided no risk action as we can all see in the DZ.  

I believe the DZ was intended to be an arena for grinding and with the ability for fairly well matched teams could fight each other and work on tactics to get the upper hand much like @Xeromaus detailed in his DZ story in the other thread.  It is likely people would find much more fun in that situation, possibly excluding those who currently have free reign and very limited risk at the moment.

The game will live or die based on the community of players it can build for the endgame.  If new players, who do not have the time to grind for hours and hours and get the best loot, are just getting slaughtered all the time then what is the incentive for them to keep coming back.  Suggesting they don't come in to the DZ is suggesting they throw away 30% of their game.  How is that a good incentive for people to buy in to the game and keep the user base alive.  It really is not a great selling point.

I have no solution to propose that will fix all of these issues (the one suggested by the OP is not workable in my opinion for the reasons others have stated).  Balancing the PvP environment is a very delicate task but I don't believe that groups running about killing anyone they come across for the lolz is going to help in any way.  To keep the player base growing and help the games chance at a decent longevity a little self restraint may be needed.  I fear that will be hard to come by.

I fully expect the people who do enjoy this type or mindless destruction to be very resistant to having any of their fun eroded away as they worked hard with dedicated hours spent grinding / glitching / cheating [delete as appropriate] to the top but maybe the fun is not meant to be solely for them alone in the DZ.... 

 

[quinch1199]

I think that'll be accomplished when the 201+ players ship out to greener pastures and better loot

I'm seeing this still as the game being actively "Balanced" ... no amount of closed testing can predict how players will act or behave when a game goes live so you have to run with a basic structure as they have done and rebalance with DLC/Patches/Free Content. We just have to give this time and I hope exactly the same as you, adding more expansive content and PvE areas will lessen the focus on Rogue activity in the DZ.

 

[HHHope]

I wish I Could run into some people that hate the DZ. show them how the nightmare really feels 

 

[Oh. daesu]

I wish I Could run into some people that hate the DZ. show them how the nightmare really feels 

HHHope Guided DZ Tours.

Touring all good DZs from 1 to 6. 

All you need to bring is your inner rogue and plenty of ammo.

 

[Xeromaus]

Again, the DZ is a completely optional area. In no way are you ever forced to enter as you progress.

You can argue that the weekly mission requires you to enter the DZ, but the reward is only 30 pxc... a lesser reward than a single vanilla challenge mode run. Completing the DZ portion of the weekly has so far only required killing NPCs as well, and can be accomplished in short bursts going no further than 50-100m from a checkpoint.

 

[Oh. daesu]

Having an area which is neither pure pve or pure pvp is going to generate some discontent both ways

 

[quinch1199]

Having an area which neither pure pve or pure pvp is going to generate some discontent both ways

Absolutely. I think we can agree its not ideal still, we just have to patient. Problem I see is that a great number don't have that and I worry about the franchise haemorrhaging players...I actually DON'T WANT a The Division #2 ... I want The Division to be an ever expanding game, instead of bringing out an entirely new game but just adding a huge paid update (like WoW do!). 

Not sure Massive or Ubisoft have the balls to run this franchise that way though unfortunately.  

 

[TheDarkZone]

I hate this idea so much that I cannot even put it into words how much a I hate it.

 

[ShootFirstPodcast]

I would venture to say that my experience in the Dark Zone has been that when a group of Rogues hit enough people, the whole instance swarms them and they don't last too much longer after that.  Not saying that this is what happens every time.. but I feel like it was UbiMassive's way of making it to where it's supposed to be difficult for Rogues to just rule a Dark Zone instance.  If your community bands together and ends their run, they'll typically calm down and you can get back to whatever you were doing.  Plus; you get the experience for knocking out Rogues, etc. etc.  On the same token, I know that a good group of 4 can handle themselves quite well.. but in theory 1.2's split of the end game Dark Zone brackets more will further help with this.

 

[Oh. daesu]

I would venture to say that my experience in the Dark Zone has been that when a group of Rogues hit enough people, the whole instance swarms them and they don't last too much longer after that.  Not saying that this is what happens every time.. but I feel like it was UbiMassive's way of making it to where it's supposed to be difficult for Rogues to just rule a Dark Zone instance.  If your community bands together and ends their run, they'll typically calm down and you can get back to whatever you were doing.  Plus; you get the experience for knocking out Rogues, etc. etc.  On the same token, I know that a good group of 4 can handle themselves quite well.. but in theory 1.2's split of the end game Dark Zone brackets more will further help with this.

When things are quieter, people just bail from an instance when there's vacuous rogue squad romping around. So, no biggie.

 

[Xeromaus]

I hate this idea so much that I cannot even put it into words how much a I hate it.

Gotta go with TDZ here. When you view the area as it's intended to be instead of what you want it to be, it's great.