Weapons DPS cap ????

[peterwor]

Thanks for any help anyone can give, I've just run into a problem I do not understand at all. I'm a little "challenged" sometimes. So i finally figured out that dos isn't really the driver in the ability to take down a 32,33,34,35 enemy.  It's primarily used on the "firearms" value. (I told you I was  little challenged ).  So I've ben playing around with a whole mix of gear couple of 268 pieces, mostly 240, I finally seemed to find a balance that took me from, originally  

Primary dos                     Toughness                           Skill power

  223,130                             451,323                                 10,245

Firearms                             Stamina                              Electronics  

  1980                                      2225                                        1023

After reworking my gear  to focus on enough toughness/Stamina so that I was at 75%n of incoming was mitigated (I was close that that before on the stamina side but I had a problem taking down a 32 with a 229 M44 or a 229 Police M4  (also a 204 G36 that I LOVED). So below is where I land yesterday, after much tr=weaking and time n the range to make sure I was actually dealing more damage. I now have 

Primary dos                     Toughness                           Skill power

167,061                            425,301                                  17,332

Firearms                             Stamina                              Electronics  

 2943                                      3402                                      1023

Now I have no problems thing down 31,32, 32 (33 is tough but able to, 35 haven't tried).   Ok, so what am I whining or complaining about ?   In doing all this I was putting my assault rifle back together (it's a 229 Police M4 and so smooth and pretty close to the G36 except the G36 I have is only 204) So I have all my High End attachments set to go, I have everything but, for example a under barrel attachment (h bandstop),  now my M4 is at 164242. I go and select the handstop  I want, the screen says that should brig my dps to 171567 , cool that works. well I actually attach it and what's my dps?, it's 167061 NOT 171567

I shut downs restarted since sometimes the attachment screen plays games.  Just to confuse me more, I thought maybe I'll take the extended clip out , add the handstop ad see what happens.

Clip& handstop out my dps is at 104087, I select the extended clip I want, which should bring my dps, according to the screen  from 104079 to 158519, ok select and insert the clip and what's my dps? It's not 158519 its 164242  WHAT ????  What is going on ? It'S HIGHER THSAN IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE HUH by almost 5000 dps !!!     Ok, so now let me add the handstop, OMG it says my already inflated dps from the clip makes my pre handstop dps at 164242. (I'm totally confused at this point) Ok so I select my handstop and the screen says my final dps should be 171567, cool that would be great, let's attach the handstop, . Um, Uh, Hmmm my dps is not 171567 it's been capped at  167071 almost 4000 lower dps than it's supposed to be.

Being positive about the fact that at least my firearms # lets me deal a ton more damage according to the range and walking the streets, & underground. I can;t help but think that I'm still getting robbed.  If anyone has any ideas , I 'm in the midst of documenting my gear layout, talents and what's in all my mod slots (primarily firearms based to up the firearms # at one point it was 3011 then I don't know what I did but did;t stick, before I started to pay attention I could make my primary dps almost any value I could.

Has anyone seen anything like this before ?

Thanks in advance for any and all suggestions or ideas of what I could have done to introduce this

Cheers, 

Peter

JAC Peterwor

 

[DeadSockPuppet]

To my knowledge, there's not a DPS cap.  I'm pretty sure that there are people with DPS well over what you're talking about (I was at like 190k with 1.1).  I know I've heard of this happening in the past and for the life of me I just can't remember what the issue was.  

 

[RimBlock]

I haven't seen this before but, as you can see from your examples, DPS have many, many factors....

A higher firearms may give a lower DPS as bonuses from equipped gear and equipment are also combined.  A cap on these bonuses may be affecting your scores (ie. crit chance).

TBH, bottom line is that DPS is a really poor measure.  Accuracy boosts it massively even if not providing any big advantages for example.  I have a M1A with Accurate talent.  Adding a couple of mods I can boot accuracy to 100%.  If I add another attachment with accuracy then I get another big boost to DPS even though I am already at 100%.  For this gun, I put a Stability and crit dam muzzle break and although the DPS is lower, the actual real world damage is much better.

Build for DPS but only up to a certain level.  After that, build for what feels right.

Fire a gun and it pulls right.  Will accuracy or horizontal stability give you a better chance of hitting even though the DPS will be higher with accuracy ?.

Also note that DPS reported is also affected by skills so if you just come out of the UG or are in a mission and the pulse effect is still on you then your DPS will be different (same for other skills like smart cover).  It is one way of finding out how much of a boost these skills actually give.  Check you inv screen and note the numbers, pulse, check again.  Can make trying to tune things a little tricky though.

 

[peterwor]

I haven't seen this before but, as you can see from your examples, DPS have many, many factors....

A higher firearms may give a lower DPS as bonuses from equipped gear and equipment are also combined.  A cap on these bonuses may be affecting your scores (ie. crit chance).

TBH, bottom line is that DPS is a really poor measure.  Accuracy boosts it massively even if not providing any big advantages for example.  I have a M1A with Accurate talent.  Adding a couple of mods I can boot accuracy to 100%.  If I add another attachment with accuracy then I get another big boost to DPS even though I am already at 100%.  For this gun, I put a Stability and crit dam muzzle break and although the DPS is lower, the actual real world damage is much better.

Build for DPS but only up to a certain level.  After that, build for what feels right.

Fire a gun and it pulls right.  Will accuracy or horizontal stability give you a better chance of hitting even though the DPS will be higher with accuracy ?.

Also note that DPS reported is also affected by skills so if you just come out of the UG or are in a mission and the pulse effect is still on you then your DPS will be different (same for other skills like smart cover).  It is one way of finding out how much of a boost these skills actually give.  Check you inv screen and note the numbers, pulse, check again.  Can make trying to tune things a little tricky though.

RB,

Thank you, thank you. I sincerely appreciate your very clear reply.  I'm quickly getting a grip on all the combinations and combinations that make up dps and all the other things, more importantly  the true forearms #. I definitely, finally, get that dps is all fine and dandy but the firearms value, at least as far as I know, is the real dealer of damage. So as you suggested I'm not too hung up on dps  and look more at the firearms value.

So if I may, Something you said I have to honestly say "I don't get"  that was regarding the "Critical Damage" muzzle brake, (since that's all I ever really use, know it well).  If I got your input right, you're saying that some of the gear and or weapons mods (my guess is it's more likely gear, in my case, but who knows?)  How does, some percentage of Critical Damage or Chance cap something like dps?  I honestly don't quite understand how does that  attribute whatever it's really called, effects the cap on a dps value?  

Along the same lines, I think somewhere I read or was told that, in look over on the "character" tab under "Health" or ?? that there is a line item that tells you the x% of damaged is mitigated by your health,armor,stamina. Somewhere I got the nation that thing over 75% was a waste. I'm at 75% now exactly.

So I guess what I'm asking is can you, without a lot of pain, try and give me an idea of what I should try and roll out or recalibrate skills, talents attributes in my Major & Minor sections the things that would cap or inhibit growth of the damage I can deal?  Honestly if it's a pain in the a$$ no worries, I can try and sort on my end.

Thank you again for the reply it was very helpful and clear,

Peter

 

[DeadSockPuppet]

Thoughts on weapons:

You're correct about the damage mitigation from armor capping at 75%, which means any points you have in armor over 5354 are wasted - they don't add to your toughness or protect you any more.  That being said, you can still raise your toughness by increasing your stamina skill or by adding health.  

Adding to your electronics and skill points are also great things.  Higher skill points can help turn your skills around faster and make them more powerful, which can allow you to deal more damage, heal faster, and be a more productive player.  

Some other things to look at adding bonuses to enemy armor damage, increased ammo, elemental protection (namely burn).  Also, if you tend to use certain skills (I like pulse, Smart Cover, etc.), adding bonuses to those skills can help buff your character when you use them.  

Some general thoughts:

This is kind of out of place but I wanted to address your comment about the crit hit chance cap of 60%.  Crit hit damage, however, is not capped (to my knowledge).  This is a hard cap, so like the  damage mitigation for armor, anything you have in CHC that's over 60% is wasted.  Note, if you regularly use pulse, consider your pulse bonus into the 60% so you're not wasting skills.  For example, if your pulse offers 15% CHC, make sure the weapons you use are as close to 45% or less as possible.

If you're looking for some more help, check out the YouTube videos by Arreks and Skill Up and start listening to the DZR Armory podcast.  The latter just started (only in second Ep) and is about 30-40 min and it goes over different gear sets and what to roll on each of the six slots.  If I remember right they discussed the DeadEye set on the last Ep.  

The YouTubers will have TONS of videos on everything from reviews of weapons, gear, and game updates to videos on what are the "best" stats to have on each of the six pieces.  

Finally, keep posting up on here.  Make some changes, tweak some stuff, try it out and post it here.  The group will constructively "pick it apart" and offer suggestions.  Also, use the weapons range.  Go in there when you don't have skills/buffs running and start changing out mods, firing your weapons, and then comparing results.  

Thoughts on weapons:

When you're using the range, learn to love spreadsheets.  If you want to be a true min-maxer you need to be logging your results to run some comparisons and see what's best.  You can go with a notebook and writing everything down, but a spreadsheet allows easier analysis and comparison with some simple formulas.  As a casual player, I eyeball most things because I don't have time to spend in the range (I get about 8-10 hrs./week total to be on the PS4).  

To get a baseline, list what all mods you have on a weapon and what your starting avg DMG is (white), avg crit DMG is (orange), avg headshot DMG is (red) and if possible avg armor DMG (blue).  Once you've done that, change one mod and see how it changes your numbers.  Repeat until you've found the mod you like.  Once you're set in that location, move on to the next mod, rinse and repeat.  

You can do this for all the mods on your weapons and see how different combos pan out.  Just rememeber that what may come out as the best combo on paper may not be the best option for you.  If you customize your weapon and it's set for headshots but you're a less than stellar shot and you fire center mass, you're wasting your mods.  

 

[RimBlock]

Wot he said...  :12_slight_smile: .

Be careful about Firearms though as it is a poor boost for weapon damage considering what you could use those points on elsewhere.

I have built for toughness on equipment and then have tuned for a base firearms min I am happy with to prop the weapon talents I want.  Remeber 204 weapons prop their talents with lower stat requirements but then, potentially, do less damage.  I fine tune with equipment mods and try to make sure they also give skill power along with the stat boost (health or firearms).  Masks and backpacks with skill power helps get me get to the 32k I have now with a base electronics of around 1.2k).  Pulse and smart cover can give massive bonuses to damage per shot.

Once you have those weapon talents propped, the fine tuning skills come in and you need to start deciding on which way you want to play.

Play with a regular team and someone has a good pulse - may not need any crit chance equipment bonuses as the team covers it for you.

Play with randoms via matchmaking - Might want to add a bit of crit chance in case you are the only one running pulse.

More interested in base damage or want to try and prop crit as much as possible - Tune for extra dmg / headshot damage or tune for Crit chance and crit damage or somewhere in between.

It really depends on your play style and if you are solo or with random groups or with a regular group.  It also depends on your play style as well.  Do you like to 'reach out and touch someone' as a marksman or do you prefer to get 'down and dirty' as an in close brawler ?.  Maybe you like to support and get high skill power to buff everyone and heal when needed or want to be a 'jack of all trades' with the trade offs that entails.