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HVT's and 214/240 drops...yuck!

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SwordfishTom

Community Member
I don't know about you guys, but with the new HVT missions, I'm really disappointed to have had so many 214 and 240  set gear drops only to find, ironically, they're almost useless. After 1.2 and the new armor cap, I have yet to have a drop that actually increases my stats even somewhat significantly and I'm running at only 196 GS. I really think if a 240 level gear item drops and you have a 182 for the same gear slot, it should ALWAYS increase your stats...at least a little! Anyone feel me? I'm liking the game less and less compared to when it launched.

 


Xeromaus

The Rogue Mod
If every piece of gear above your GS increased your stats, we'd all be maxed out with nothing to do.

On the 182 versus 240 bit, if you're finding 240's that are lower or match your 182s and nothing else, you're getting the worst luck imaginable. The absolute lowest end of 240 rolls can match the absolute highest end of 182, but there's only an overlap there of 22 points. High end to high end, there's a difference of 103. Doesn't sound like much either way, but getting a full set of 240 can boost you by 627, a significant amount no matter how you look at it.

A good build isn't grown out of massive up-ticks per find, it's made of small increases to each piece, ultimately combining them all to big gains. Even then, you still have room to grow, thanks to the system in place now. At 225+ I can still find pieces that boost my stats, and it doesn't matter if it's by 1 or 100, a gain is a gain.

All that aside though, I couldn't make a set of 182 gear that would even equal what I would be able to do with full 191. You could get your main stats higher with the 182, sure, but the bonuses on gear sets can amount to so much more if you build right.

Nothing has changed since launch in this respect either. The tier system always had overlaps. A high set of superior could beat a set of HE, but HE had the edge with talents. No one ignored them then, so why do people overlook 2/3/4 piece bonuses now?

 
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xSIGxAR15x

Community Agent
I don't know about you guys, but with the new HVT missions, I'm really disappointed to have had so many 214 and 240  set gear drops only to find, ironically, they're almost useless. After 1.2 and the new armor cap, I have yet to have a drop that actually increases my stats even somewhat significantly and I'm running at only 196 GS. I really think if a 240 level gear item drops and you have a 182 for the same gear slot, it should ALWAYS increase your stats...at least a little! Anyone feel me? I'm liking the game less and less compared to when it launched.
It's just bad luck man. I only have found one piece I can use. 

 

RimBlock

Underground, overground, wombling free
I have only seen a single 240 drop and that was pretty good for me (Predator holster with 900+ armour but only 2 stats).

The 214s have been ok but after the first wave of replacements, finding something better is becoming hard.  My body armour and backpack are still only 182s but both have over 1k armour and I am not finding anything close / better even if I recalibrate 1 stat.

Not an issue with drops, more an issue with time spent at lower levels and fine tuning over that time before the 1.2 patch takes time to get better items.

 

Luis Rivera

New member
yes bro i understand what u r saying , the sets are not worth it and that so called "generosity" is cheap talk to get people disappointed back in a game that its so mess up that they dont know what else to do. happen the same to me im getting 240 from time to time believe sometimes pass over 2 hours of grinding of doing HVT to get one to just sell it or gave it to someone else who wants it, they can wrapped them all and throw the in the trash , cause this things are not worth it at all.

 

Xeromaus

The Rogue Mod
yes bro i understand what u r saying , the sets are not worth it and that so called "generosity" is cheap talk to get people disappointed back in a game that its so mess up that they dont know what else to do. happen the same to me im getting 240 from time to time believe sometimes pass over 2 hours of grinding of doing HVT to get one to just sell it or gave it to someone else who wants it, they can wrapped them all and throw the in the trash , cause this things are not worth it at all.
You're grinding the least reliable source for 240 pieces, and complaining that they don't drop.

Once you learn how to build a solid character, there's not many sets that aren't worth having. If you post your build on the boards somewhere, we'd be happy to show you where it needs work and how to improve it.

 

SwordfishTom

Community Member
You're grinding the least reliable source for 240 pieces, and complaining that they don't drop.

Once you learn how to build a solid character, there's not many sets that aren't worth having. If you post your build on the boards somewhere, we'd be happy to show you where it needs work and how to improve it.
No offense, but I don't think we're playing the same game. I've seen tons of the same complaints on multiple Division based forums. And by saying "Once you learn how to build a solid character" ....well, I won't comment much on that. With the time I've put in, I know what will improve my build or not.

 

Xeromaus

The Rogue Mod
No offense, but I don't think we're playing the same game. I've seen tons of the same complaints on multiple Division based forums. And by saying "Once you learn how to build a solid character" ....well, I won't comment much on that. With the time I've put in, I know what will improve my build or not.
I don't doubt that you know how to improve the build you're using, but to say sets are worthless because they don't fit that build specifically is terribly short-sighted.

As far as a solid character, running hvts in groups and still taking two hours says something very different...

 
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SwordfishTom

Community Member
??? When did I say doing HVTs takes 2 hours? And regarding the 240 gear drops being garbage, and you stating in another thread that you have yet to see someone demonstrate that, I'm working on that.

 

Oh. daesu

agent provocateur
On the 182 versus 240 bit, if you're finding 240's that are lower or match your 182s and nothing else, you're getting the worst luck imaginable. 


I think it is a product of having to grind so long for so little set gear, prior to the recent patch, that most gs <200 have very good 182 gear. Now in the new loot drops, we start seeing more set gear, it seems that it compares poorly to the our current 182 gear. It just that our 182 is typical the best rolled gear with good armour. When I put on all our newly acquired 214/240, I easily see my armour mitigation drop down into the 50s% (scary to see, it is).

With patience we will acquire good set gear like we did with our 182 gear. It is just one of those things that creates perception that things are out of wack. If the loot drop was better balanced it wouldn't seem this way so much, but trying to find balance in these games is not easy from the get-go. At least they are trying to achieve a balance. Especially after all the early exploiters.

 
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Xeromaus

The Rogue Mod
I think it is a product of having to grind so long for so little set gear, prior to the recent patch, that most gs <200 have very good 182 gear. Now in the new loot drops, we start seeing more set gear, it seems that it compares poorly to the our current 182 gear. It just that our 182 is typical the best rolled gear with good armour. When I put on all our newly acquired 214/240, I easily see my armour mitigation drop down into the 50s% (scary to see, it is).

With patience we will acquire good set gear like we did with our 182 gear. It is just one of those things that creates perception that things are out of wack. If the loot drop was better balanced it wouldn't seem this way so much, but trying to find balance in these games is not easy from the get-go. At least they are trying to achieve a balance. Especially after all the early exploiters.
Even a perfectly rolled set of 182 gear would only be 22 main stat points higher per piece than the lowest set possible in 240. Aside from that, all of the attribute rolls have a higher range on 240 than 182, and 240 bonuses are FAR beyond what you can achieve with 182. God rolled or not, you sometimes have to accept a small decrease in one area temporarily to pave the way for gains in others later... but this is where most seem to misunderstand the system. If you're only looking for immediate gains per piece, you're going to bypass a TON of gear that would be a MAJOR improvement.

 

Oh. daesu

agent provocateur
The armour score appears quite prominently. And the gear I've seen it hasn't been a little bit less. 

 

Xeromaus

The Rogue Mod
The armour score appears quite prominently. And the gear I've seen it hasn't been a little bit less. 
well, you can add around 650 with gear mods, but ultimately, you'll need to roll/recalibrate armor as a main stat on no less than 3 pieces to achieve the new cap anyway. You can always reroll the one major you don't like, but again, if you're just looking for pieces to drop perfectly, you're gonna miss out on a TON of upgrades.

 

Xeromaus

The Rogue Mod
I guess I should point out an additional bit here as well;

I'm judging this based on getting out 20-30+ 240's a day, not a small sample size by any means. If you're only seeing 10 or less a day, I understand why you would think the way you do.

 

Oh. daesu

agent provocateur
well, you can add around 650 with gear mods, but ultimately, you'll need to roll/recalibrate armor as a main stat on no less than 3 pieces to achieve the new cap anyway. You can always reroll the one major you don't like, but again, if you're just looking for pieces to drop perfectly, you're gonna miss out on a TON of upgrades.
I've only been able to reroll one main stat between firearms/stanima/electronic, and armour is static on gear. So if a piece of gear has low armour then that's what it is.  And adding armour mods is done, but kind of misses the point that people are making. The perception is that set gear looks lower as armour.

Of course, if your getting 30 a day, i can understand you thinking the way you do. Key word is perception.

 

Xeromaus

The Rogue Mod
I've only been able to reroll one main stat between firearms/stanima/electronic, and armour is static on gear. So if a piece of gear has low armour then that's what it is.  And adding armour mods is done, but kind of misses the point that people are making. The perception is that set gear looks lower as armour.

Of course, if your getting 30 a day, i can understand you thinking the way you do. Key word is perception.
+armor is a major attribute (not a main stat) on all gear except masks and gloves. You can re-calibrate for it in place of a gear mod slot, protection from elites, +health, exotic damage resilience, or a number of other major attributes, and will be required to do so on at least 3 pieces (or two if you get MASSIVE rolls on chest and one other piece) to attain the new armor cap of 75%. The standard (non recalibrateable) armor that comes on pieces will not be enough to reach it alone, nor will mods.

Farming DZ05/DZ06 in the 201 bracket, nothing but 204 and 240 pieces drop at all from named elites and supply drops. Pulling 30 a day isn't hard at all. You have the perception bit backwards though...judging a thing based on a small sample size is almost always erroneous, while a larger sample size gives you a better idea of whats actually going on. Over just 10 pieces, it could seem like anything is normal. Over 30 or more, you can start to see what actually is the norm and what isn't.

 
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Oh. daesu

agent provocateur
Haha no perception isn't backwards. Perception is to do with people, which was why i using that way. My point wasn't saying the set gear was actually worse, just why it seems that the 214/240 looks worse. Our currently equipped 182 typically has better armour. 

 

Xeromaus

The Rogue Mod
Haha no perception isn't backwards. Perception is to do with people, which was why i using that way. My point wasn't saying the set gear was actually worse, just why it seems that the 214/240 looks worse. Our currently equipped 182 typically has better armour. 
You're correct, I'm not explaining it well at all, and chose a poor choice of words to stand alone. I will attempt to correct that now.

Your perception is violently skewed by a lack of information and a lack of experience with the subject at hand. It may still be your perception of how the events unfold, but what you're seeing and accepting as normal isn't. No one that's seen as many 240s as they have 182s is complaining about stats lacking on 240s, nor would they EVER choose 182s over 240 pieces. The odd 204 pops up in some players builds, but even using those is a loss...the talents simply can't compete with gear set bonuses, and the possible stat ranges aren't even comparable. None of that is an opinion, it's mathematical fact.

Your gear likely could have more base armor than most 240's you're seeing...you've seen more of it, less combinations existed, and you've had far longer to acquire higher rolled pieces. Once you get to the same point with 240s, you'll understand what's being said. The base point here is that the stat ranges on 240's FAR exceed the stat ranges on 182s (all of them, including native armor: 182 native armor range on chest pieces = 706-864, 240 native armor range on chest pieces = 830-1018, and every other slot/piece/stat follows suit), but they do have slight overlaps. Yourself and a large group of people are seeing low rolled drops from 240s, and that sucks, I get it, but it's not the norm, or even the average. Whether you want to believe that or not;

  • there are 6 slots available for 240s to drop into
  • there are 8 types per slot
  • there are 3 main stats per type
  • there are 19 major attributes, 11 minor attributes, and 34 skill attributes available per type
  • it's absolutely possible for the exact same piece to drop multiple times.
What this means is that there are literally hundreds of thousands of pieces available that could potentially be the 240 drop you receive. If we factor in the percentages available to each major/minor/armor/main stat/attribute, now we're in the hundreds of millions.

If we instead look at 182s, everything but types matches up. There were 5 types for chest, backpack, and mask, 4 types for gloves and holsters, and 3 types for knees. Those small differences equate to there being hundreds of thousands less unique 182 pieces than 240s...however, you had since the games launch to farm for the best versions of each, as most pieces players kept rolled into the 182 gs/tier.

As for 240 pieces, most players didn't have the ability to access or complete the previous versions of high end content that dropped them. As a result, most have had literally two weeks since 1.2 dropped to lightly farm for 240 upgrades in a sea of options so vast a human mind can barely comprehend them as unique and individual pieces. That's far from enough time for most to see any significant gains. You've absolutely found pieces of 240 so far that exceeded a main/minor/armor/major/skill stat you have on it's 182 comparison you're currently using, but likely dismissed it as junk for having two or more stats you wanted to re-roll or just flat out didn't want on your "perfect" version of the piece

You can now certainly complain about there being an overabundance of gear to sort through to find the pieces you want, but bear this in mind before you do; the same players that complained about max level gear being locked behind content they couldn't accomplish, and that they were stalemated on advancement because of it, are the same group that brought about this influx.

 
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Oh. daesu

agent provocateur
Your gear likely could have more base armor than most 240's you're seeing...you've seen more of it, less combinations existed, and you've had far longer to acquire higher rolled pieces. Once you get to the same point with 240s, you'll understand what's being said.
This is actually the point i was making. Not sure if you get that. You seemed to be projecting other peeps diatribes over the top of my own passing point.

 

Xeromaus

The Rogue Mod
This is actually the point i was making. Not sure if you get that. You seemed to be projecting other peeps diatribes over the top of my own passing point.
My apologies if I am, but this same thing comes up far too often. This seemed as good a time as any to make more than a passing remark about it.

 
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